168's and LTR twist??????

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by JDJHNTR, Dec 19, 2006.

  1. JDJHNTR

    JDJHNTR Well-Known Member

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    168\'s and LTR twist??????

    Back a couple years ago, I put together a factory stock (except for lapping the brl and adj. the triger) Rem 700P with the 24" brl in .308win. This along with my handloads was the most accurate rifle I have ever owned! On a good day (me and the weather), it would shoot way better than I could shoot it! It would put 3 shots in one hole around .4 pretty darn consistantly at 100yrds! May not up to some you guys shooting, but sure was good for me!
    Anyway.......due to a brain F*@t on my part, I no longer have this rifle. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif My question is this.....

    1. what was the barrell twist on the older 24" 700P's in .308
    2. would the newer LTR's in .308 work fine with my prefered pills? (168grn's)

    I now have a place to shoot on my own property out to 500yrds and wanted to play with the medium/long range stuff again, but wanted a gun a little lighter in weight than the 700P/PS. I really like the looks of the LTR but have been told than the twist on them was wrong for the 168's? Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.........
     
  2. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    Re: 168\'s and LTR twist??????

    get a 12.
     

  3. JDJHNTR

    JDJHNTR Well-Known Member

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    Re: 168\'s and LTR twist??????

    I'm guessing you mean twist? If so.....thet LTR fits the bill? Thanks.......
     
  4. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    Re: 168\'s and LTR twist??????

    Anything from a 11.25 to a 13 twist works very well with the 168 SMK's 12-13 being the all around best. 12 will also handle the 190 SMK, 178 AMAX, 175 SMK and will still shoot the 155's well also. BR shooters use 14, but that is for 100 yards. Not sure how it would work at 600 yards.

    The 700 PSS's use a 12 twist. So do the newer LTR's.

    Hope that helps.
     
  5. JDJHNTR

    JDJHNTR Well-Known Member

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    Re: 168\'s and LTR twist??????

    Thanks "meichele"! I was hoping to hear from you! We had several long discusions back a couple years ago when I put the above mentioned 700P together. As stated......I no longer have that gun and wanted to try something a bit different this time. I have been eyeing the LTR's ever since they were introduced but have never owned one. I figured this may be a good chance to give one a go?
    Really want to put a rifle together for shooting here at my home range (out to 500yrds), but my hunting property does present shots out to 700-800 yards. I am a die-hard pistol hunter and dont see myself toteing the rifle much, but would like to have one just incase the mood strikes me?
    Do you have any thoughts on the LTR out to 6-700 yards with the 168's? Before when you helped me on the 700P.....I kept the velocity down to around 2700fps per your advise. Is this still what you prefer with the 168's in a .308? Thanks again and look forward to hearing from you and anyone else that could share opinions?
     
  6. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    Re: 168\'s and LTR twist??????

    Its good to have another conversation with you too!

    My opinions on velocity of the 168 in 12x is somewhat the same. 2600-2800 is hard to beat. This is only my opinion though! I have used the 168 at 763 yards on a sheep and it din't open up though. Velocity was 2661. 4000' in 60 degree air. I dont use them much anymore due to that fact and also their uncanny ability to tumble after about 800-1000 yards depending on the air density at the time. The 178 AMAX has filled every one of my needs. It opens nice at low velocity, stays supersonic to 1K and is increadibly accurate. The 12 twist will still work fine for the 175 SMK and the 178. Not saying you should switch to them, just maybee give em a try.

    Also, just out of curiosity, what appeals to you about the LTR over the PSS?
     
  7. JDJHNTR

    JDJHNTR Well-Known Member

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    Re: 168\'s and LTR twist??????

    Well..........I've owned a couple P's, PSS's,VSSF and VS's, but never a LTR? I like the little bit shorter barrel and compactness I guess? What is the reasoning for keeping the velocity in the 2600-2800fps range and not pushing them a little harder? I'm sure you explained this to me in the past, but lost all our emails I had saved when my old laptop crashed? Thanks again........
     
  8. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    Re: 168\'s and LTR twist??????

    Well for one, over 2800 in a 26" barrel will start yeilding pressure problems. Also, the RPM's produced with a 12x at 2600-2800 are very user friendly with the 168 SMK's. In other words, those RPM's are good for a good stability factor so the bullet will go to sleep in a decent amount of time for optimum accuracy.
     
  9. Desert Fox

    Desert Fox Well-Known Member

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    Re: 168\'s and LTR twist??????

    [ QUOTE ]
    The 178 AMAX has filled every one of my needs. It opens nice at low velocity, stays supersonic to 1K and is increadibly accurate. The 12 twist will still work fine for the 175 SMK and the 178. Not saying you should switch to them, just maybee give em a try.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    What's your recipe for the 178 A-Max. I would like to try them on my 308. Thanks
     
  10. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    Re: 168\'s and LTR twist??????

    Desert Fox,

    What is your barrel length and twist? What kind of rifle?

    I have several good loads for various barrels.
     
  11. Desert Fox

    Desert Fox Well-Known Member

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    Re: 168\'s and LTR twist??????

    Michael,

    My rifle wears the Pac-Nor Supermatch 3 grove ,12 twist, 25 inch barrel USMC Sniper rifle contour. Loves the Scenar 155 and the 168 Nosler J Comp but would like to try the 175's the 178's or the 190's for that matter. Just like to take shortcut here. I have on hand H4895,Varget, BLC-2 and IMR 4064 and 4350. Chamber were cut with Obermeyer designed reamer for 175 SMK. The Scenar with it's higher B.C is good for paper punching but I'm looking for a hunting loads that would streach this cartridge up to 800 yards on a deersize game.
     
  12. buzzgun

    buzzgun Well-Known Member

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    Re: 168\'s and LTR twist??????

    The 168 SMKs shoot great in my LTR (5 into .6" or less, average velocity 2653 fps)......the 175 SMKs shoot a bit better (best group so far was 5 into .288" average velocity 2576 fps).....using Varget powder for both bullets.
     
  13. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    Re: 168\'s and LTR twist??????

    Try VARGET and RL-15. Up to 45 grains each if this is a SAMMI chamber. As always, start lower and work up. I find that the 12 twist and the 178 make a great match with 42.0-45.0 of VARGET and RL-15. If your rifle is stupborn and you cant find a good load with VARGET, dont waste your time on anything other than RL-15. I would be supprised if VARGET didnt work well though. If it does, hold on! With a 25" barrel, you most likley will get somewhere between 2600-2700 FPS with the 178 and 45.0 of VARGET.

    I have had great luck with the 190 SMK except for the lack of their expansion on game at 308 velocities, even at 300-400 yards. 600 wasent any better! 43.5 RL-15 was my pet load at 2657 FPS in an 11.25 twist 24"er. It was slightly on the warm side but shot amazingly well out to 1K. A 12x will be similar in load data.
     
  14. Desert Fox

    Desert Fox Well-Known Member

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    Re: 168\'s and LTR twist??????

    I used Varget for the 155 grain Scenar and BLC-2 for the 168 Nosler J4 Competition. The BLC-2 is really promising if not for temperature sensitivity issue.

    Here's the ten shot group at 100 yards using the 168 Nosler Comp.Five round loaded with 43 grain and five with 43.5 grain of BLC-2. Federal Gold Medal Brass and 210M primers. Velocity at 2600-2675 fps respectively. As you can see, point of impact didn't changed much. This will be my summer load for this rifle. I can go up a grain for winter and push this bullet at 2700 plus without pressure problem.

    [image]http://[​IMG][/image]


    Here's the 155 grain Scenar load. This will be my choice for my first high power competition.

    [image]http://[​IMG][/image]