How far to kill an elk with a .243?

[4xforfun]

If memory serves me right, there was a "Hunting show" on one of the outdoor channels a couple of years ago....they were touting the 6-284 with vld's as a long range elk killer. I mean true long range, as in 700 to 1000 yards!!!!

I wish I had taped that show so I could remember the name of the program.

Just so you know, I ran right out and baught a brand new 6-284 with the XYZ scope on it just to see!!! LOL

 

[pitbull320]

you know this comes up all the time is this a big enough gun for elk.The problem with small calibers is there is no room for error and most people think there is. I have killed many and seen many elk killed with all sorts of calibers and most off your small caliber do OK with close range shouts and I'm talking under a 100yrds but that shout should have never been taken because if she missed the mark they would have never found it.The times I have guided hunters for elk most hunters I have taken with small calibers and large calibers with 150gr bullets and light we never find there elk or by the time we find them the grizzly's all ready have them so should you use a small caliber or a large caliber with a light bullet no no no no no no no no it's just stupid

 

[WildRose]

Some guys just have no idea what there guns are capable of unless you practice shooting the distance. I have shot repeatably at 100 to 500 yards an I feel very confident on hitting anything out to 500 yds with a vital killing shot. As I am sure they too have practiced shooting at all distances an tuning there guns with there ammo to acheive that goal . So really can you find fault in the shot ? Seems to me they did what they set out to do by laying all the ground work first and making the shot . Takes alot of practice to get to that level.lightbulb

No it doesn't.

I've taken literally dozens of people who couldn't hit their *** at two feet and in under two hours have them hitting consistently from 300-600yds.

If everything is already tested, proven, and dialed up a monkey can pull the trigger.

Hell I had my five and seven year old nieces hitting ten inch pie plates at 300yds with a 7mm Rem Mag the first time they ever pulled the trigger.

 

[backwoods83]

I guess no one killed elk until the release of the 300 wby and H&H, the 30-30, 30-06, 250sav, 7x57, 8x57, 6.5x55, and 300sav have killed more wildlife effectively from the 1890s-1950s, then all the 338s combined. A crap shot with a 338 LM is no better than one with a 243. Yeah I like just about any caliber, they are all fun to shoot. If you know the ins and outs of your rifle and shoot it on a regular basis caliber should not start an argument. None of you can tell me an elk has never ran off from a big 338, stop judging and start shooting more often then you can decide if that kind of shot is for you or not.

 

[sp6x6]

Hey. my dad gave me a 243 vanguard when I was a kid. We hunted what is now know as wilderness. He told me to shoot elk in the head. Well I was a kid and it didnt always work out that way.And I chased a few down. That was my first gun and my sons also. Both of our fisrt elk where 5pt.bulls.Know I have had some time behind that rifle and have spent 1/2 my life bow hunting , so a 243 seams like a good bet to me. I would have no problem taking an elk with one at range 4-500. But I WOULD MUCH RATHER have my 340 wm or Norma. And if I have a lite gun the shot choice drops rapidly

 

[WildRose]

40,000 years ago my ancestors on this continent were killing creatures that make our largest game animals look like puppies with rocks and sharp sticks.

That doesn't make it a good idea when we have better choices in weaponry available.

For the true hunter marksman choice of caliber is of far less consequence than proper bullet selection and shot placement.

I'm something of an expert at using inferior calibers to do thing they were never intended to be used for (see the attached photo .204 Ruger and hogs killed with it) and have done so quite successfully for a very long time. I will not however encourage others to do the same and think it's a very, very bad idea to do so.

This is a forum, we are here for discussion and no one has a right to try and silence these discussions except our host.

 

[Scot E]

the guide tells the girl to shoot the elk RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE...and later says RIGHT BEHIND THE SHOULDER... Others have stated that " it was a spine shot..hence the legs folding up underneath the cow so quickly."..???

Had she shot where told to...it would have been a "lunger" and of course a killing shot...but not the dramatic foldup that was videoed.

FWIW, I have watched many of John's videos and am pretty certain that the directions he gives her, ie hold in the center . . . . hold behind the shoulder, are 2 separate sets of directions. Meaning he tells her where to hold vertically and then where to hold horizontally. I have heard him do this on other videos too.

Not condoning the shot or the cartridge choice just pointing out that I don't think he was in any way being irresponsible in his coaching.

Scot E.

 

[lazylabs]

I would think that if your "coaching" and doing all the practice to become such a proficient shot to gaurentee the shot with a little bullet at that range you have probably already discussed anatomy and shot placement? Isn't it a little late to decide that stuff while on the trigger? I have shot a lot of deer and antelope with a .243 and it does have a good amount of knockdown up to 300 or so but longer is touch and go with me shooting.

 

[eddybo]

FWIW, I have watched many of John's videos and am pretty certain that the directions he gives her, ie hold in the center . . . . hold behind the shoulder, are 2 separate sets of directions. Meaning he tells her where to hold vertically and then where to hold horizontally. I have heard him do this on other videos too.

Not condoning the shot or the cartridge choice just pointing out that I don't think he was in any way being irresponsible in his coaching.

Scot E.

I am pretty sure he was telling her where to hold for his wind calls. I have a 243Ai that I am positive would put a 115 dtac within a couple inches of my desired POI at that range. Not gonna say I would shoot an elk with it, but I have no doubt that the results would mimic the video. I hunt with too many guns to ever go afield with even the slightest doubt in my mind that I am under gunned.

 

[cultivateitnow]

On the site that link was copied from John tells you to listen to his wind calls. He explains what he used to call the hold and noted the wind direction change. He said to watch the warm air from the cow's breath as conformation of the change in wind direction, thus moving from mid point to behind the shoulder right before the shot. This was not a one time event with that gun.

 

[mnoland30]

Magnumitis infected America long ago. Europeans routinely kill moose (bigger than elk) with the 6.5 Swedish Mauser. Eskimos hunt polar bear with the .243 and .303 British. More deer have been poached with the .22 LR than any other caliber. The .243 with a 95 grain Barnes bullet has more energy at 500 yards than a .44 magnum at the muzzle. Using a fragile bullet (except perhaps the Bergers) for heavy boned game can be a problem for any caliber. Bullets like the Barnes increase weight retention and penetration. Many people think you need a .300 Magnum for elk, but I killed a bull last year with one shot at 350 yards (168 gr. Berger bullet @ 2700 fps) out of my 7mm WSM. I thought I was impervious to recoil until I started shooting 400 gr. bullets with 150 gr. 777 out of my muzzleloader. I closed my eyes and jerked the trigger on a 90 yard shot at a cow elk. I have a poor man's ultra light rifle, a Contender Carbine in 7-30 Waters. With 120 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips, it wouldn't penetrate a small Barbary sheep ewe at 90 yards. I switched to Barnes, and it went through the shoulder and dropped a big ewe in her tracks at 230 yards. I have no doubt it would kill an elk. My friend hit 3 oryx last year with 150 gr. Rem. CoreLokt bullets, and lost all 3. He changed over to 180 gr. bullets and finally harvested one. Bullet sectional density, placement and terminal performance make a big difference. I almost always use a bipod and Barnes bullets. The chance of good bullet placement go up dramatically with less recoil. I've watched dozens of nimrods at the range who can't sight in their big magnums because after the first 3 shots they're flinching so badly there isn't a group. For a great discussion on lower velocity, knockdown, and meat damage, go to EABCO's web site. eabco.com/Reports/report05.htm

 

[Magnumitis]

The part that bothers me here about John's Coaching more than the small caliber is the follow up. He should be training to chamber a folow up round and get back on the elk for a good while. Many times they will get back up.

I agree. My dad used the same bullet, 105 gr. Berger, to take a buck antelope this year. I forgot my video camera, but it would have made great footage since it dropped right in it's tracks at 672 yards. The only problem is, it got back up...

 

[sambo3006]

I have mixed feelings about the video. Clearly the cartridge and bullet combo did the trick nicely in this case. I have my doubts about consistent performance of that type. It sure makes me feel more confident in my 7mm STW shooting 168 gr VLD's, though!

 

[Tikkamike]

I dont shoot bergers except in my 22-250, but I shoot SMK's which are similar in design in my 338 and they blow up on everything, If anything I have decided that if it were not for the sheer weight of my 300 SMK's it would fail almost every time. No way would I use that bullet on an elk at any range, especially with a beginner hunter who is more apt than an experienced shooter to make a less than perfect shot. I would have loaded her up with 100 partitions and cut the distance in half. but it worked out so thats pretty awesome for the young lady.