Shoulder bumping technique

[jimbires]

Just started adding Redding S bushing dies to my reloading. Can shoulders be bumped back with these dies? Can you bump a shoulder back with the fixed neck sizer dies in a Redding 3 die set or will I need to add a "body" die to all of my S bushing die sets?

I neck size with my redding bushing dies , then I use a body die to bump the shoulder .

 

[GLTaylor]

Scott,
You can get 2 kinds of type S bushing dies. One neck sizes only. The other is called a Type S FL bushing die. The FL die will neck size and shoulder bump. If you have the neck size only, you can get a body die to just bump shoulders. It just adds one more step to your process.

 

[Scott E Ames]

My Redding set t is a three die set with a separate body die for bumping

My 7mm RemMag set is a "competition" S bushing set and has the body die and micrometer neck and micrometer seater dies. My 243 set is completely different (my fault as I ordered them) but has a regular FL die, S bushing neck and plain jane seater die. And to complete the perfect storm my 6.5 CM is a "deluxe" set and has FL die, fixed neck sizer die and micrometer seating die. Are the competition die sets the way to go? My problem seems to be not knowing which sets contain which sub-types of dies. I figured with the fancy black box, $$$ and gold labels the "deluxe set" would have everything (wrong). Also there have been lots of out of stock issues here and the "something is better than nothing" philosophy may have led to some bad choices.
Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[misterc01]

Have not been shooting my 6. 5 yet, so can't comment on sizing those cases, but with my .308, I use a match grade neck sizing die, have the Redding competition shell holder set if I need them, and I use a lube made of isopropyl alcohol and lanolin. For the onesy-twosey cases, I use Imperial. I can bump back to .002 consistently. I have the same die, etc for use when I get to the 6.5. This is a great thread - lots of info and things to consider!

 

[MNbogboy]

Good info on here with all methods.
A couple of points that have helped over the years. May not apply to all.
1. Anneal every cycle for most consistent results.
2. Use a different piece of brass for each bump adjustment.
3. If you have the time measure every piece before & after bumping. Make slight adjustments to equalize outliers. Outliers also may be sorted out (difference in brass with all factors & processes equal).

 

[Scott E Ames]

Scott,
You can get 2 kinds of type S bushing dies. One neck sizes only. The other is called a Type S FL bushing die. The FL die will neck size and shoulder bump. If you have the neck size only, you can get a body die to just bump shoulders. It just adds one more step to your process.

I think this is what tricked me. I thought that the s-bushing sets were all alike, I got the Competition set first and did not notice the difference with what I guess is the plain S-bushing sets.

 

[Rhino Hunter]

At first glance I thought this was a newly suggested style of greeting each other.

I'm glad it's not.

Good stuff here.

 

[Scott E Ames]

My Redding set t is a three die set with a separate body die for bumping

I am guessing that yours is a "Competition S-bushing" set???

 

[CatShooter]

You are not FL Resizing but only making contact with your cases shoulder.

That is sooooooooo not true!

The Redding body die does FL the case - they squish the body, and then push the shoulder, just like a full length die - they just don't size the neck portion.

The only true "bump" dies are made by Forester.

Bushing Bump Neck Sizing Dies

Order according to the profile of the specific cartridge.

www.forsterproducts.com

Using a standard Full Length die, or a Redding body die to move the shoulder back 2 thou, is like if you wanted to lose 2 pounds so you gained 10 pounds and went on a diet to lose 12 pounds.

When you use an FL or body die to bump, you are first squeezing the body to be undersize, and moving the shoulder forward (making the head to shoulder length longer), and then forcing the case shoulder case back - that's a lotta brass working for such a tiny result.

If you want to bump a shoulder, then get a real Forster bump die.

 

[Alibiiv]

I'm new to reloading and would like some advice on shoulder bumping. What I'm noticing is that on the first pass through my FL sizing die the case lengthens of course, and after a couple more strokes the shoulder is back about a half of a thousandth (or not at all), and sometimes further passes will get me about 0.0015 or maybe 0.002, which is what I'm trying to obtain. Adjusting the die less than a tenth of a turn deeper gets me too far, sometimes 0.0035 or more. I can't seem to find the middle ground that gets me 1.2-2 thousandths on the first pass. First time the ram comes down (full stroke) there is a gap between the die and shell holder about the size of a sheet of paper, and second or third the die touches. With no case, the die touches. Appropriate "cam-over" at the end of the stroke. I attribute what I'm seeing to some slop in the press, not sure if I should change anything.

What would you do? Does it sound like I need to work on getting better adjustment or is this acceptable technique?

Equipment:
RCBS Summit press, bolted solidly
RCBS FL sizing dies & shellholder
Measuring shoulder with Larry Willis digital headspace gauge (confirmed my technique with them, measurements are consistent and repeatable)
Norma 6.5 Creedmoor brass, once fired, deprimed and cleaned, lubed

My first thought that raised the question is, "Have you annealed your brass before you started resizing?" Second thought is that every time you work that brass, you are work hardening the brass, which could cause some of the spring back, again another reason for annealing.

 

[CatShooter]

Or you could just grind .002" of the die base and full length resize as usual. What is wrong with this idea?

"What is wrong with this idea?"

Everything...

But mostly, fired cases are never the length of a sizing die, so cutting 2 thou off of a die does NOT get you a case that is 2 thou shorter than your fired cases - they don't even match each other from the same rifle, so modifing a die gets you no where fast, and now you have a die that is too short.

 

[L.Sherm]

The forster bump dies do not size the body at all, which is why I use FL dies and still bump my shoulders .002. FL Dies that size the body only .001-.002 are my preference.

 

[338 dude]

I am guessing that yours is a "Competition S-bushing" set???

Yes

 

[jimbires]

I think this is what tricked me. I thought that the s-bushing sets were all alike, I got the Competition set first and did not notice the difference with what I guess is the plain S-bushing sets.

it is confusing , I have just about ordered the wrong ones a couple of times . I just looked , I get the type S bushing ,competition sets . this set has two dies with micrometer tops , and a body die .