Weatherby 6.5 RPM?

[Turnbolt53]

Turnbolt53 –

Yup - $200-$300 die sets aren't part of any of my plans, but then I didn't pay anywhere near those prices when I got my Redding dies in 2009. RCBS has 6.5-06AI 40-degree for $151 and change, special order, which is still high but a one-time purchase compared to brass. The Weatherby 6.5-300 brass runs $1 more per piece than .25-06/.270 brass. I have a minimum of 200-500 pieces for each of the rifle cartridges I load (excluding .223/5.56 and .308/7.62 x51, for which I have many times that). The 6.5 RPM will likely be in the same range. You can of course, get brass by purchasing Weatherby loaded ammo for about $3 a round. Assuming that you can find it. I don't anticipate difficulty finding .25-06 or .270 Win brass in my lifetime.

Agreed that you can probably load the 6.5 RPM with any bullet – I just compared what WBY offers and I load. I suspect if I loaded the 127 LRX that velocities would be somewhat higher than what I get with the 130g Scirocco II. In any case, the velocities would be so close that the more expensive 6.5 RPM would be hard to justify on the basis of performance. Kind of like getting 125 apples per bushel for $125 or 120 apples of the same variety and quality for $60.

Not sure where the 6.5 RPM loads will use in terms of powder, but the 6.5-300 WBY uses 29% to 47% more than my 6.5-06 loads to get the same performance, based on Hodgdon's 6.5-300 data. Granted, you can burn even more in the 6.5-300 to get an extra 100-200fps over my 6.5-06AI. The 6.5 RPM will be more modest in its powder consumption but we don't yet know what those numbers will be. Given the 6.5 RPM's larger case, it will likely use more powder to achieve velocities similar to the 6.5-06AI. Probably around 10% more.

As I said before, the big advantage of the 6.5 RPM is you can get it in a 5.5 pound genuine Weatherby rifle – for a mere $2500 bucks.

Yes . . . downloading a big case to get the same performance as a smaller case will always use more powder.

And at equal pressures, to get more velocity you have to burn more powder. Disproportionately more.

But at equal pressures, the larger case will always be capable of greater velocity.

Those that want/need the extra velocity can choose the 6.5x300Wby, 26Nosler, 264WM, 6.5 Wby RPM, or choose lesser 6.5 SAAMI cartridges all of the way down to the 6.5 Creedmoor. It's nice to have options.

Brass cost will be surely be higher than the 6.5/06AI, but as a hunter, it wouldn't be the factor that drove me to choose one chamber versus another. And as a SAAMI cartridge, dies will be cheap.

And fireforming 6.5/06AI brass is a PITA, uses powder, primers, bullets, and wears out barrels.

For anybody wanting a cheap 6.5 Wby RPM, just get an old Savage 110, a Northland Criterion 6.5 Creedmoor barrel, and a 6.5 Wby RPM reamer and you're there.

 

[HARPERC]

.....I don't understand the hostility towards the new cartridge. You don't have to disparige it to justify your favorite.......

I just wish there was a rimmed version!

 

[can1010]

I just want brass.
this will make some nice wildcats.

 

[Rich Coyle]

I just wish there was a rimmed version!

You mean like a 45-70 rim?

 

[HARPERC]

I like rims on my No. 1's. Looking for about this case capacity in a 6.5. Front runners would be a 6.5x65 R blown out, basically a rimmed Sherman, or .30 Blaser necked down.

We all have our quirks was my point. I'm really liking the looks of this rifle, and readily see the combo being extremely useful. It's good to see a major company taking on the challenge of an ultralight. It's going to shake the the industry trees in my opinion.

It's not Obamacare-If you like your cartridge-you can keep your cartridge guys!

 

[Nomosendero]

Yes . . . downloading a big case to get the same performance as a smaller case will always use more powder.

And at equal pressures, to get more velocity you have to burn more powder. Disproportionately more.

But at equal pressures, the larger case will always be capable of greater velocity.

Those that want/need the extra velocity can choose the 6.5x300Wby, 26Nosler, 264WM, 6.5 Wby RPM, or choose lesser 6.5 SAAMI cartridges all of the way down to the 6.5 Creedmoor. It's nice to have options.

Brass cost will be surely be higher than the 6.5/06AI, but as a hunter, it wouldn't be the factor that drove me to choose one chamber versus another. And as a SAAMI cartridge, dies will be cheap.

And fireforming 6.5/06AI brass is a PITA, uses powder, primers, bullets, and wears out barrels.

For anybody wanting a cheap 6.5 Wby RPM, just get an old Savage 110, a Northland Criterion 6.5 Creedmoor barrel, and a 6.5 Wby RPM reamer and you're there.

Yes, it has a good deal more velocity potential than the 6.5-06AI as it has more powder capacity. I don't know what all the bobbing and weaving is about with some. As far as brass cost is concerned, it depends on popularity. If it goes over like I think, some other companies will offer the brass, it's not like it used to be, even 10 years ago in that regard.
To me, just pick the bullet weight range and the velocity you want and go from there. Some may want hotter, who cares? I already have 2 volume rounds to shoot, 6.5Cr & 308. I think the place I want to be is in the .264WM range for a hunting round, this cartridge is in that basic area.
Should be fun to watch!

 

[Don A Parsons]

Even though a custom 6.5 might burn some powder,,, primers and bullets along with getting the brass fire formed is what you'ld have to do with the 6.5 RPM...

Most barrels start to shoot good once a few rounds have been launched down the pipe,,, normally we see some pretty tight groups from our F Class barrels at the 150 to 200 shots...

Our laboratory on wheels allows us to fine tune the loads at that point...

My F Class rig was shooting pin holes in the 338 shots fired,,, of course it was getting 1/2 MOA groups at 100 meters,,, but after the combined load development it tighten up to 1/4",,,, don't forget that this is a 18+ lb national match rifle...

My new 6.5 A-square was tacking the 1/2" MOA in the first 40 shots fired,,, we were able to ladder test at 100 knowing that the Bob Jury Stainless Steel Contour 2.8 was ready to rock...

We settled on 53.3gr of H1000
CCI BR LR primers
ELD-X,,, M's,,, and Nosler Partions at 2890 ft-per seconds for the 140 to 147gr bullets...

Very tight verticals at 100,,, 600,,, 1000,,, and 1450 metres... 11.9 lb rig...

I've launched the odd clearing shots threw the hunting season to make sure it's still on target,,, ruffly 400 shots,,, it is a hunting rifle so I'll get about 3 or 4 more years out of it before I switch barrels...

Some folks don't go for the break in,,, some do,,, we're ok doing what we do since its a good time blasting away...

If we have to restrict how much we spend on components to shoot,,, then I'll give up on the activities of the shooting sports and hunting... LOL...

One thing we have going for us up here in our neck of the woods is,,, a hand full of good friends that are rifle builders and barrel makers...

Shooting sports as a whole costs us nothing since its one of those hobbies like fishing,,, camping,,, sledding,,, quading and horses... No charge for things that add value to our lives...

Cheers from the North

 

[Coyote_Hunter]

Yes . . . downloading a big case to get the same performance as a smaller case will always use more powder.

And at equal pressures, to get more velocity you have to burn more powder. Disproportionately more.

But at equal pressures, the larger case will always be capable of greater velocity.

My point is that. at least for me, the 6.5 RPM doesn't offer enough velocity advantage to justify the extra cost. Or enough of anything, for that matter. If my Savage 111 donor wasn't a magnum, I'd go 6.5-06 and never look back. YMMV.

Those that want/need the extra velocity can choose the 6.5x300Wby, 26Nosler, 264WM, 6.5 Wby RPM, or choose lesser 6.5 SAAMI cartridges all of the way down to the 6.5 Creedmoor. It's nice to have options.

Yes, it is nice to have options. Ever since the 6.5 PRC came out I've been thinking that would be the direction I go with my Savage 111 7mm RM when I replace the rusty barrel. Now I'm thinking more and more that the .264WM would be a better option as it closely matches the velocity from my 6.5-06AI. I don't have any need for the velocity offered by the barrel burners or the recoil that comes with them, brass supply headaches now or in the future or the extra costs for brass and powder. Again, YMMV.

Brass cost will be surely be higher than the 6.5/06AI, but as a hunter, it wouldn't be the factor that drove me to choose one chamber versus another. And as a SAAMI cartridge, dies will be cheap.

Brass cost is a big concern for me as I typically buy 200 to 500 cases for each cartridge I load for (all 19 of them). Availability is another concern – when I bought my Walther PPK/s .380 it was 3 months before I got to shoot it – couldn't find ammo or brass anywhere thanks to Obummer. I don't see any need to spend $1 more per piece of brass when $0.40 will do.

And fireforming 6.5/06AI brass is a PITA, uses powder, primers, bullets, and wears out barrels.

Fire-forming brass is no big deal for the 6.5-06AI. I use .25-06 brass and a 49.0g H4831SC with a 140g bullet. That is 0.4g under Hornady max for the 6.5-06 and 0.5g under Nosler max. With 2760fps MV the load is only 40fps below the 2800fps specified by both Hornady and Nosler, both using 24" barrels, which is what my 6.5-06AI has as well. There is nothing PITA about it – I get very accurate loads with low recoil that my girls and I all love to shoot and I get fire-formed brass as a freebie.

For anybody wanting a cheap 6.5 Wby RPM, just get an old Savage 110, a Northland Criterion 6.5 Creedmoor barrel, and a 6.5 Wby RPM reamer and you're there.

Even cheaper, a beat up Savage (111 GNS in my case, $295 out the door) and a match quality .264 WM barrel from Ragged Hole – no reamer needed and RCBS dies are $34.

 

[JemezDave]

My point is that. at least for me, the 6.5 RPM doesn't offer enough velocity advantage to justify the extra cost. Or enough of anything, for that matter. If my Savage 111 donor wasn't a magnum, I'd go 6.5-06 and never look back. YMMV.



Yes, it is nice to have options. Ever since the 6.5 PRC came out I've been thinking that would be the direction I go with my Savage 111 7mm RM when I replace the rusty barrel. Now I'm thinking more and more that the .264WM would be a better option as it closely matches the velocity from my 6.5-06AI. I don't have any need for the velocity offered by the barrel burners or the recoil that comes with them, brass supply headaches now or in the future or the extra costs for brass and powder. Again, YMMV.



Brass cost is a big concern for me as I typically buy 200 to 500 cases for each cartridge I load for (all 19 of them). Availability is another concern – when I bought my Walther PPK/s .380 it was 3 months before I got to shoot it – couldn't find ammo or brass anywhere thanks to Obummer. I don't see any need to spend $1 more per piece of brass when $0.40 will do.

And fireforming 6.5/06AI brass is a PITA, uses powder, primers, bullets, and wears out barrels. [/QUOTE]

Fire-forming brass is no big deal for the 6.5-06AI. I use .25-06 brass and a 49.0g H4831SC with a 140g bullet. That is 0.4g under Hornady max for the 6.5-06 and 0.5g under Nosler max. With 2760fps MV the load is only 40fps below the 2800fps specified by both Hornady and Nosler, both using 24" barrels, which is what my 6.5-06AI has as well. There is nothing PITA about it – I get very accurate loads with low recoil that my girls and I all love to shoot and I get fire-formed brass as a freebie.

[/QUOTE]For anybody wanting a cheap 6.5 Wby RPM, just get an old Savage 110, a Northland Criterion 6.5 Creedmoor barrel, and a 6.5 Wby RPM reamer and you're there.[/QUOTE]

Even cheaper, a beat up Savage (111 GNS in my case, $295 out the door) and a match quality .264 WM barrel from Ragged Hole – no reamer needed and RCBS dies are $34.[/QUOTE]

Dude-we get that you can't afford it ok? The whole point is a sub 5lb rifle with very nice performance to boot.
Kudos to Weatherby for the great new offering. Should be very popular with the extreme backcountry hunters AND older (me) crowd as well

 

[MOJO67]

You guy's baggin on Weatherby and their new cartridge/rifles are a real hoot. If people were to listen to folks like you, we'd still be shooting muskets and riding around in horse drawn wagons!! Jeesh!!

 

[Coyote_Hunter]

Dude-we get that you can't afford it ok? The whole point is a sub 5lb rifle with very nice performance to boot.

Kudos to Weatherby for the great new offering. Should be very popular with the extreme backcountry hunters AND older (me) crowd as well

Affordability isn't the issue. My income puts me in the top 1% and our 4,000 square foot house on 5 acres in an expensive subdivision is paid for. I can afford a lot of nice things but too many years of being dirt poor in my younger years also taught me the value of thrift. I've never been one to jump on the latest new thing like a fish going for a flashy lure. My full custom, Krieger barreled 6.5-06AI ran over $2000 total and while I could have purchased a Ruger .338WM for much less, I had one custom built to suit my wants and needs using Ruger parts. I have two gun safes, one large Browning and one smaller Stack-On and need another. We generally pay cash for our new vehicles (we buy nice ones and drive them forever) so a $2500 MSRP for a 6.5 RPM rifle isn't an issue. The issue is the value isn't there for my purposes. If you think otherwise you don't "get" squat.

If sub five pound rifles are the only market for the 6.5 RPM, the market is very small indeed, and recoil will likely suck.

If the larger case of the 6.5 RPM requires 10% more powder to achieve the same velocities as my 6.5-06AI, as is likely, calculations show recoil will be around 31-32 ft-lbs for 127-130g bullets in a 5 pound rifle and higher yet for the 140g bullets. Thank you, but no thanks. By contrast, my 6.5-06AI loads in a standard weight rifle (8.3 pounds with scope) would be under 18 ft-lbs. In my fluted heavy barrel 6.5-06AI with laminate stock, they are even less.

The fact is that, in standard weight rifles, the 6.5RPM has no significant advantage (if any) over other currently available SAAMI cartridges, including the 8.5-284, 6.5-06 A-Square, 6.5 PRC and .264WM. And if velocity is your thing, it can't match the 26 Nosler or Weatherby 6.5-300.

If you think the 6.5 RPM is wonderful, go for it. I'll pass.

 

[adam32]

If the larger case of the 6.5 RPM requires 10% more powder to achieve the same velocities as my 6.5-06AI, as is likely, calculations show recoil will be around 31-32 ft-lbs for 127-130g bullets in a 5 pound rifle and higher yet for the 140g bullets. Thank you, but no thanks. By contrast, my 6.5-06AI loads in a standard weight rifle (8.3 pounds with scope) would be under 18 ft-lbs. In my fluted heavy barrel 6.5-06AI with laminate stock, they are even less.

Where do you get your factory 6.5-06AI ammo at?

 

[Coyote_Hunter]

You guy's baggin on Weatherby and their new cartridge/rifles are a real hoot. If people were to listen to folks like you, we'd still be shooting muskets and riding around in horse drawn wagons!! Jeesh!!

The 6.5RPM is a nice cartridge for their new back Country lightweight (5 pound) rifles, but recoil will be an issue (31+ ft-lbs by my estimations and calculations), For standard weight rifles and the vast majority of uses, the 6.5RPM offers no significant advantage over currently available SAAMI cartridges.

I'm sure Weatherby will sell some rifles, but if the cartridge is to be a long term success it will have to find a home in competitive shooting and/or standard weight rifles and components and ammo will have to be competitively priced as well.

Remember the Edsel, New Coke, Google Glass. Sometimes new isn't better.

Edit to add: Don't forget the Gyrojet ammunition, either.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Coyote_Hunter,

But it's a Weatherby. And I like Weatherbys. This time I won't have to get an aftermarket stock to reduce its weight.

By the way, it comes with a new concept in recoil pads and best of all a brake.