Zeiss Rapid Z 800 & 1000 scopes for M1A (M21) .308 UPDATE

[G-gear]

My Springfield M1A (M21) can group well under an inch with 168 SMKs, Lapua brass, CCI 34 primers, and 40.5 grs. of H4895.
I haven't tried past 100 yards yet, but, since I've been looking at buying a Zeiss Conquest Rapid Z 800 or Z 1000 scope, the dope on their website has caused me to recently write the following:

'Been doing some hunting for the best scope for my Springfield M1A (M21).

Springfield Armory Rifles

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ZEISS RAPID Z 1000 RETICLE vs. RAPID Z 800 RETICLE
Both are around $925
And both are 4.5-14x50
http://www.zeiss.de/C1256BCF0020BE5F/Contents-Frame/E34E4125AA548D6685256BCF0061320D

Note: Please enter your information into our Rapid-Z Calculator to ensure that you make the best possible reticle selection
based on your caliber, bullet, hunting conditions and location.

According to their calculator for the Rapid Z 1000 (designed for the .308 Match ammo):
This IS the value for .308, Sierra 168-gr. MK (BC =.462),
Velocity: 2,550 fps,
Elevation: 4,500 ft. ASL
Temp: 80 degrees F

The Rapid Z 1000:
With their calculator, and the scope power ring set to 11.8x (12 power):
*Optimize Power for: Bar No. 10 - Distance 1,000.
They say to zero dead-on at 500 yards with the Bar 5. (Bar 5 is the Center Crosshair.)
Easier way: To zero Bar 5 @ 100-yards:
On 11.8x (12 power): make bullet impact 11.87" high @ 100 yards (above Bar 5 - Center Crosshair).
Then this will happen:
At Bar 1, the bullet will impact at 139 yards - (and you can roughly zero at 139 yards with Bar 1, on 11.8x (12 power).
(Bars 1 - 4 are above the center crosshair Bar 5.)
Bar 2 = 218 yards
Bar 3 = 313
Bar 4 = 404
Bar 5 = 500
Bar 6 = 597
Bar 7 = 695
Bar 8 = 796
Bar 9 = 897
Bar 10 = 1,000 yards
This is seemingly unbeatable.

Now, with the Rapid Z 800:
With the M1A, same load, they say to put the power ring at 7.45 power.
*Optimize Power for: Bar No. 8 - Distance 800.
Sight in at 1.77" high @ 100 yards for a 200 yard zero (Center Crosshairs - call it Bar 1).
(All other Bars are below the center crosshairs - Bar 1.)
Watch it fall into place:
At Bar 2 (an unmarked bar), bullet will impact at 295 yards.
Bar 4 = 395 yards
Bar 5 = 495
Bar 6 = 596
Bar 7 = 698
Bar 8 = 800 yards

I know it's not a 1,000 yard reticle - but 'tis rather versatile anyway...

So, I'm deciding on which to choose.
More field of view with the power ring set at 7.45x with the Z 800, than at 11.8x on the Z 1000.
And they say the Z 800 is intended for other calibers; but, look what it does for the .308!


But, if you definitely need it backed-off at the lowest 4.5 power also, then the Z 800 will work for both close-quarter, and long-range work.
At 4.5 power, just use the center crosshairs for 0-300 yards - then for precision: Zoom to 7.45x for 200-800+yards.

Q. What would the Z 1000 do at 4.5 power? - when it is set up for all ranges (100-1000) at 11.8 power?
A. Dead-on at 500-yards ONLY - Center Crosshairs - Bar 5. (Bar 5 impacts 11.87" high @ 100 yards on 11.8x. -Would need to test point of impact of Bars 1-4 on 4.5x ).

Maybe we can't have our convenient cake, and eat it too.

So, for me, THE DECISION IS: Z 800 !

The Z 800 is more traditional and more useful under stress. Your short-range field of view (FOV) and accuracy (at 4.5 power) could mean everything.
I'd stress more over the up-close and personal - than sweat the remaining 200 yards down range to the magic 1,000 marker.

And, I could live with the Z 800 at 7.45x to be sure for 0-800+yards. -You know what it's gonna do on 4.5x and 7.45x before you ever mount the scope!

With the Z 800, at ANY needed magnification (4.5x - 14x), with the center crosshairs, the bullet will still impact 1.77" high @ 100-yards, and will still be absolute bullseye at 200-yards!

But, for a dedicated Long Range benchrest set-up - or if you don't mind having it at 11.8 power all of the time, the Z 1000 bullseyes scratches the 100 to 1,000-yard itch.

G-gear
[email protected]

You can check-out their reticles here:
Zeiss Rapid Z 1000
Zeiss | 4.5-14x50 AO MC Conquest Riflescope | 52 14 90 9973

Zeiss Rapid Z 800
Zeiss 4.5-14x50 800


LRB 7x50 laser rangefinder binoculars
http://www.newcon-optik.com/lrb7x50.html

Unbelievable?

Almost.

http://www.newcon-optik.com/Specs/lrb7x50.pdf

 

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

M21 hugh you need to drop the whole ZEISS idea and go with the HORUS HAWK it will do everything your ZEISS will do for less money more accuratley!

I had one mounted on my M1A and it got me past 900 just a bit and you can set it up for you hand load.

It cost 325$ less than a ZEISS they send you the softwere, you can print out a rangecard for your handload and its in the FFP.

If you want to spend a bit more go with the Falcon model its the one the ARMY uses on its M21's and it has enough adjustment to get you past 1000.

Just my 2 cents
Jon

 

[G-gear]

Thanks for the experienced advice.

Horus Vision : System 5

I checked it out at the above link, and just as I thought, it has the short range bars above the center crosshairs.

I'm kinda bent on getting the Zeiss Rapid Z 800, that has the center crosshairs, then all of the other bars below it.

I will have my scope power ring set to 4.5X always, until I need the precise 200-800-yard setting at 14X.

I think I could live with that better, if not longer.

 

[ponsoldt]

I asked a question about this and no one responded. I was seeking confirmation of what you expressed. The 800 seems to make more sense for hunters.

Bill