Yet another question( Neck Sizing)

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Guest, Aug 7, 2004.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Please excuse if this is a dumb question. I have a 22-250 and usually fl resize..just enough to bump the shoulder back to get the round to chamber. I tried an RCBS Neck size die and after sizing the case...Can not get it to chamber in the rifle. RCBS says I'm ShiP out of luck and can never neck size only. Seems odd to me!

    Rem 700 VLS 22-250. Will I have better luck with a Redding die maybe? I can't believe I'm only gonna be able to FL size my brass.

    Joe
     
  2. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Lablover,

    It depends on how hard you run your loads. If your driving them hard, you will more then likely need to at leat partially full length size your case everytime.

    You should be able to get your cases back in the chamber though, they may be quite tight but they should rechamber.

    Take a just fired case and see if it will chamber in your rifle. If it will not your running your pressure to high. The bolt should close on a fired case, may be tight but it should close.

    Sounds like you got ahold of a lazy SOB at RCBS. What is the point of the NS die if you still need to full length size you case afterword. The person you talked to either is not educated enough to help you with your problem or is flat out lazy.

    One thing to look at is if the fired case WILL chamber in your rifle but a neck sized case WILL NOT chamber, more then likely you are adjusting the die down to far and disrupting the neck of the case and puching it out of dimension from the chamber.

    When I neck size, I like to size only about 2/3 or the neck.

    One disadvantage the standard neck sizing dies have is that the case is not supported when the neck is being sized. If the brass is soft and it takes pretty good pressure to size the neck, the neck/shoulder junction will become bulged from the lack of support.

    The best neck sizing die on the market is the Redding Comp Bushing Neck sizer. It has the sliding sleeve to fully support the body of the brass during the sizing operation, preventing any inadvertant changes in the shoulder and body dimensions.

    Neck run outs are usually in the 1's with the Redding as well.

    Good Shooting!!!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  3. Aussie

    Aussie Well-Known Member

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    lablover ,
    Check overall case length as well . .22/250's stretch cases rapidly with warm loads .
    Common with the Rem. 700 in .22/250 to find cases extract easily with hot loads but won't rechamber without full length sizing . May have to back off your loads until you can get 3 or 4 reloads before full length sizing is required . You'll be trimming cases very regularly otherwise and after 3 trimmings they're junk .
    After having owned a Rem. 700 .22/250 and a Sako .220 swift I found that the best way to get .220 Swift velocities is with a .220 Swift .
     
  4. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Aussie,

    Actually, the best way to get Swift performance is with a 22-250 AI.

    Here is why and its advantages over the Swift and the standard 22-250.

    -nearly zero case stretching even with full tilt loads when chambered correctly.

    -Every bit the velocity of the best 220 load. In fact in same length barrels, the 22-250 AI will actually have a slight velocity edge.

    -Ability to fire factory 22-250 ammo and in the rifles I have chambered for customers, will get 1/2 moa groups with these loads on average.

    -More efficent case design then the Swift, feed better(no damn rim), better powder ignition characteristics and better quality brass.

    SO in my opinion, I love the performance of the Swift, but it is far better out of a 22-250 AI then the swift itself.

    For real serious 22 caliber rounds, I prefer the 22-6mm AI with a 55 gr pill loaded to 4200 fps out of a 26" barrel. This is easy to do with 56.0 gr or RL-22 and pressure will run about what a 22-250 will with a 50 gr pill at 3800 fps.

    Just one smiths opinion.

    Good Shooting!!!

    50
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The thing is some of these loads are starting loads in the sierra manual. It is funny however..They seem to chamer fine but there is a kind of bump...or nick right before I close the bolt (on a fired case) as well as when I open the bolt (on a fired case) opens fine right up to the last part of the bolt handle completing it's travel before the bolt comes back.
    Weird

    I'll investigate length in the morning...Part of me thinks it's that.


    Whats the best way to set up a neck die for sizing...

    Joe
     
  6. milanuk

    milanuk Well-Known Member

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    Is that 'bump' when opening and closing there w/ factory ammo? Sounds almost like you are hitting the cam lobe on the bolt. About the only time I noticed it on my gun was when I was running some 'warm-ish' loads. Let us know what you find.

    Monte
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Nope...Not with factory ammo. Here is a monkeywrench.

    I measured one fire case with the stoney point headspace thingie [​IMG] Tried to chamber the empty brass...Can do it but that little tick or bump is there and hard to close the bolt. Then I run it thru my F/L size die Now it gets good...Stoney point says it's the same damn size as before....no change on shoulder reading etc But now .............DRUM ROLL...It chambers fine.

    Hmmmmm...This ones gonna keep me up at nights [​IMG]

    Joe
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    New developments

    I figured I'm awake...why not do some tests. I went thru a batch of about 50 cases...Tried to chamber them..Still getting that tick or bump right before closing the bolt. After looking carefully at the cases (fired cases) I notice the ones that are giving me that bump..or tick after extracting the fired case..The mouth of the case is now rough or burred on a small part of the case mouth..before it goes in the chamber..it's smoth and has powder residue on it...When I extract the fired case it has this burr on a part of it.

    So..Run it thru the neck sizing die and try to chamber again..Still have the rough spot ot bump or tick when closing the bolt. Extract...now I trim the case..it was at 1.903..I trim to 1.900 and try to chamber it again..no tick..no bump or rough spot.

    Hmmm, could be the cases nneded a trim...But that little amount is causing the rough bolt close or bump? Why am I getting that burr after extracting the case. Remember..these are cases that were previously fired in the same gun.

    Yet another new develpment..I had one case after neck size and trim that still gave me that bump...So I F/L sized it...Now it's fine..Before sizing it I used the stoney point gauge and got 3.560 at the shoulder with the stoney point. After F/L size I used the stoney point and got 3.559.5 and now it chambers.

    Oh one more thing...Every single case I have that has been fired also has a flat spot on the case mouth...Very small but the mouth is no longer perfectly round..It has this little flat spot. From extracting maybe?

    Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    Hope I'm explaining all this OK.

    Thanks in advance for the help

    Joe

    [ 08-08-2004: Message edited by: lablover ]
     
  9. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Lablover,

    Everything you are discribing is relatively typical of the Rem 700 action.

    THe burred case mouth is from a couple possibilities.

    1. Your cases may be a little long.

    2. When you full length size, you may be getting just a tick of loose headspace and when the striker hits the primer it rams the case up into the lead of the chamber. When the round ignites the case walls are blown out and it grips the chamber and then as chamber pressure raises to max, the case head is pressed back against the bolt face.

    When you open the bolt, the case mouth is still forced into the lead and as the bolt rotates to open, the case usually will as well with normal loads and it shaves a small burr up on the case mouth.

    The small flat on the side of the case mouth is also common with the factory Rem 700. This is generally caused by an overly heavy ejector spring.

    When the case is extracted and it leaves the chamber, it is slammed into the right inside of the receiver. Most factory ejector springs are far heavier then they need to be. In a case with a thin case mouth, this will but a small flat on the case mouth.

    The cure, install a lighter ejector spring. This is a standard operation when I accurize a 700. Not only does it greatly reduce this problem, it also keeps the brass from flying all over hell and into the dirt while out varminting.

    It also aids in accuracy as there isn't as much pressure trying to cant the chambered round in the event the case is a loose fit in the chamber.

    Good Shooting!!!

    50
     
  10. Coyote Hunter

    Coyote Hunter Well-Known Member

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    Lablover,
    Everyone here has pretty much gone over everything so I won't add much. Like Fiftydriver was saying "the casing may be a little long".

    But, just one thing to add: I have never experienced this problem in my 700's such as what Fiftydriver has mention "was common for these rifles". I own (8) 700's and have reload for many others for past 28 years now and have never seen this problem. But also like what Fiftydriver said about lighten up the ejector spring would be a good idea...I have done this to all of mine also.

    But anyway, I am sure in time you will find the problem.....good luck.
    ---------------
    Zod
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hopefully I can have this sent to fiftydriver and have it rebarreled and maybe some stock work done to it. It does shoot well so I might leave well enough alone for this year??

    I do know I'm hooked on these 22 calibers now. I still love my big bores but these are a blast to shoot.

    Joe
     
  12. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Lablover,

    Send it whenever, I'll tune here up for you and even add a supercharger if you like. Just sent out two rifles I tunes up and rechambered the factory barrels.

    They were both Rem 700's in 22-250 that I printed, and rechamebred to the very hot 22-6mm AI.

    They are getting 4200 fps easlity with the 55 gr Blitzking and getting groups in the 3's and 4's to boot.

    These groups are not AMAZING but for this velocity and out of factory barrels, its not to bad at all.

    When ever your ready just let me know.

    Good SHooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)