Wow…just wow!

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Checked wages lately? They're up too - a lot for the factory workers.
In Europe? I could be wrong but I believe all of the powders were discussing now are made in Europe as they always have been.

DuPont no longer produces powders in the US.

Hogdon moved most of it's production I think to Australia.

About all that's left are the spherical ball powders manufactured for military and some civilian uses are now made by General Dynamics.

If anything is seriously hurting us it's the lack of domestic powder production and between environmental regs and fines along with liability costs I doubt we ever see another time in the future, barring the outbreak of a very large war that we'll see any significant increase in the number of producers making powder in the US.
 
Also...if anyone thinks newrona is going away, you gon spend a lot of time with s surprised look on your face in the coming years. I said in april 2020 when they locked us down "theres zero chance the mouthfoamers EVER let this kinda control go". I am not a smart man, but I have been paying attention for 40 years, and the pattern of These nutjobs in office is reeeeeally consistent
Smart man
 
So, what you are saying is that ALL those stores that sell powders UNDER $45/lb are stupid and doing it at a loss and whe should be happy to pay $80/lb?
Yes prices are up, costs are up, but not everything is more than doubled!
Just curious, what is your line of business?
Like I said before, any business has the right to sell at any price (some small exceptions), and any customer has the right to buy, walk away, boycot and complaint!
I'm an engineer. Work on large frame gas turbines, compressors, gears, pumps, and generators. Think 30,000-60,000 HP stuff. 2 on 2 off in a remote location in Alaska. Most of my work involves troubleshooting performance and mechanical integrity issues, emissions, stuff like that.

I am saying whether the store sells it for 45 and some guy resells for 80, or they sell it to us end users and we're thankful to get it for 45, that the true market clearing price is much higher than 45 because people are paying more.

Has nothing to do with smart or stupid. Just how it is.

Did I say anything about being happy about all this? I don't think so. Not happy at all but I'm a realist.

I'm with you. Sitting on my hands and not buying until it settles down, which it will.
 
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I'm going to say some things here that some people won't like.

The cure for high prices is......high prices.

A certain percentage of folks on this thread saw the price sticker and said "no way I won't buy for that price!" That's exactly what we need here. Prices high enough to get people to flinch and not buy. Inventory sitting on the shelf (not selling) with a high price sticker is evidence that things are starting to turn the corner. High prices curb demand.

When your retailer has to pay too much from his supplier and then has to price too high for the market and gets stuck with inventory he paid too much for, he isn't going to be any more excited about his supplier than a lot of you guys are about your retailer.

If a retailer could keep prices at prior levels given today's demand, we all know what would happen - gone in an instant - mostly bought like the guy at Sportsman's buying 4 boxes repeatedly, only to be resold at.....higher prices.

The market is not to be manipulated or negotiated with. It is what it is. Denial, anger, frustration, and complaining don't change reality.

Prices are the ultimate rationing mechanism. Pretty much nothing else works.

Here's another thing that makes me roll my eyes. If you are more than about 35 years old and are short on components let me introduce you to the individual that is responsible for your problem. He's in the mirror.

We have seen this movie before. We will see it again. When stuff is cheap and plentiful people forget and act like it will always be available. Extra money goes to dinner out and vacations, etc. Lay some stuff up people! And not just reloading components. What is your food, water, fuel, cash, medicine, etc storage? I can see a young guy making this mistake but you don't have to be around all that long to see this cycle repeat.

Finally, as a guy who used to work in manufacturing, there is this misconception that somewhere someone just needs to turn a knob or throw a switch or add another shift and more production will occur. Making these components is an intricate process, and the plants are capital intensive and they already run round the clock. Building new plants is not measured in months of leadtime. It takes years to build a new line, and then you still have the problem of reliable sourcing raw materials for that line.

But we cry: "supply manipulation/new shooters/hoarders/Democrats/government interference/regulations/imports/lack of imports/COVID/supply chain interruptions/inflation/price manipulation/raw metals prices/the Chinese/The Russians/Internet Bots/the d-bag buying too many!!!!!"

Yeah all that and more. Prices sort all that out and more over time.
It's going too take me a little time too sort that out.
 
In Europe? I could be wrong but I believe all of the powders were discussing now are made in Europe as they always have been.

DuPont no longer produces powders in the US.

Hogdon moved most of it's production I think to Australia.

About all that's left are the spherical ball powders manufactured for military and some civilian uses are now made by General Dynamics.

If anything is seriously hurting us it's the lack of domestic powder production and between environmental regs and fines along with liability costs I doubt we ever see another time in the future, barring the outbreak of a very large war that we'll see any significant increase in the number of producers making powder in the US.
My comments had to do with metals used in bullet and brass manufacture. I do realize this thread started out about powders and apologize for the drift.

I don't know how to make nitrocellulose. I suspect the feedstock is pretty cheap and most of what you are paying for is the extensive processing, rigorous QC, etc.

I know the market clearing price is higher than MSRP. I go to the Hodgdon/Midsouth/Midway/Brownells/Natchez/PowderValley/Graf sites almost daily and whenever they get stock and sell (at retail) it is gone instantly. Like everyone I would like to score a few pounds of H1000/4350/4831/Varget for 40/lb or less.

Again, if people are buying it and reselling for more that tells you what the market is saying. Not about stupid/smart/right/wrong/morality/ethics/whatever. Just is the reality of what people are willling to pay.
 
In Europe? I could be wrong but I believe all of the powders were discussing now are made in Europe as they always have been.

DuPont no longer produces powders in the US.

Hogdon moved most of it's production I think to Australia.

About all that's left are the spherical ball powders manufactured for military and some civilian uses are now made by General Dynamics.

If anything is seriously hurting us it's the lack of domestic powder production and between environmental regs and fines along with liability costs I doubt we ever see another time in the future, barring the outbreak of a very large war that we'll see any significant increase in the number of producers making powder in the US.
St Marks plant in Florida is still open and producing powders.
 
Does GD=General Dynamics?

Seems like a buddy of mine told me that the FL St Marks plant made powders exclusively for the military.
 
Wonder if they make Win231/HP38 there. Those (identical) powders are made in USA. Also Win296/H110.
WInchester is Hogdon and some of those spherical powders I'm pretty sure are made by GD, likely in that same plant. Not long ago I came across a listing of the powders they make there. I remember some of the WC powders off the top of my head but that's about it.
 
My comments had to do with metals used in bullet and brass manufacture. I do realize this thread started out about powders and apologize for the drift.

This was more along the lines of components, which are all crazy $$$, so you are good.

I will say, hats off to all you folks that have helped others out with fair prices and components, gun parts, etc.

...And to those predators...life has a funny way of coming back around, call it karma, reaping what you sow, whatever, either way it's justice.
 
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Does GD=General Dynamics?

Seems like a buddy of mine told me that the FL St Marks plant made powders exclusively for the military.
I know Win 296 / H110 is made in St. Marks. I can not remember any others at the time. It is owned by General Dynamics. There are other civilian powders manufactured there also. Alliant "Sport Pistol" powder is manufactured at the Radford Arsenal facility in Virginia. There are some powders manufactured in U.S. yet, but I agree there could be a lot more if not for government regulation.
 
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