Wound difference between different calibers of equal weight

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jmcmath, Sep 26, 2018.

  1. jmcmath

    jmcmath Well-Known Member

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    Interested in general conversation especially real life experience of effects on game between various calibers of equal weight and relatively comparable speed.

    Example

    upload_2018-9-26_15-50-22.png

    • Energy at distance calculated with standard Hornady ballistic calculator
      • Wind speed: 0
      • Altitude: 0
      • Humidity(%) 78
      • Pressure(hg) 29.53
    • I understand the core lokt is a much different bullet, I am simply looking for loads that keep weight much the same in general, and some of the calibers that have like speeds don't have identical bullet offerings.
    • I understand I am handicapping the hell out of the 30-06, but I am doing it because a TON of people simply walk into ___mart/gas station and buy a green box of 150's and shoot a deer with it. So I think it is a bit applicable, even if not the norm on this particular forum.
    • I understand the BC of the 178 eldx is much more in line with the other offerings, but it is also much heavier, and i'm trying to compare/discuss different bullet diameters at equal weights. As a 30-06 fan I couldn't help myself but put a respectable load.
    Hornady PH 30-06 178 grains @ 2750 fps 2989 ftlbs 0.535 2167 1533

    So, these are all very common bullet weights for hunting with factory ammo in each cartridge, what do you think the main differences will be between them in the field?

    Do slimmer, higher BC bullets penetrate better through game like they do through ballistic vests/material?

    Does it matter only after 250-300 yards? Does it matter at all?


    *will work to add more loads of various bullet weights, as it is now PH is dominating except for .30 cal bullets and that’s not very fair considering the drastically different bullet designs. But... use your imagination that they are all accubonds, partitions, bergers, etc at a roughly comparable speed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
  2. Hand Skills

    Hand Skills Well-Known Member

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    I've found bullet construction and impact velocity to be more significant variables than the diameter of the bullet itself.

    Keep in mind most hunting bullets deform on impact. As a result, how the bullet deforms has more effect on the wound channel than the bullet diameter before impact.

    If you were to consider FMJ's non expanding solids, or hard cast lead bullets, the discussion changes, but few of us hunt with 'solids', and even fewer use them at extended ranges.

    Don't get me wrong, it's a good question, but pretty hard to isolate given all the variables. With expanding bullets, target resistance plays a role, as does shot placement. To answer more specifically we need to isolate something.

    I.e.
    -Given a deer at 300yd...
    Or
    -given an impact velocity of 2000fps
    -given a Hornady ELDx

    That said, it seems to me like more of a core-lok vs ELDx question. I have a fair amount of experience with core-lock's. Can't really speak to results with the eldx though.

    Considering your table, core-loks are a questionable choice beyond 300yd. My experience agrees. Their low BC causes them to shed velocity rapidly. I think the BC of a .308 150gr CL is closer to .314 G1. Still, not a suitable long range projectile by most standards. In fact, we might do well to remove core-lokt's from the discussion entirely and speak to only one type of bullet - that could be interesting.
     
  3. jmcmath

    jmcmath Well-Known Member

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    I know what you mean about the corelokts being oddballs. Unfortunately there aren’t any 150 eldx, and there are fewer options in general for some of the other calibers. I will try to find some more with advertised velocities and toss them in. I think hornady sst in 308 do around 3k FPS.

    This came to mind mostly from hearing over and over how a 6.5 creedmoor can’t kill like their 308 with factory greenbox. Coming from someone who hunts a lot with a 30-06 180 grain load I wanted to address the general concept of how much diameter matters for a given weight.
     
  4. just country

    just country Well-Known Member

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    morning, bullets of different manufactures same bullet weight, calibers have different ballistic bullet designs. the question u ask deals
    with bullet design. where does the ogive start? when ur
    bullet design and ogive change positions on a give bullet-caliber.
    the aerodymanics of the bullet changes. bullet weight,
    speed, air density , altitude, bar pressure, wind-direction
    all play with a bullets flight. justme gbot tum. very
    good gun smith's of today have a vast array of actions, barrels
    triggers, stocks, optics they can build. the main thing$$$.
     
  5. Heavyiron

    Heavyiron Well-Known Member LRH Team Member

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    Know this discussion goes on a lot but in comparing foot pounds. Your are comparing a 30/06 grain deer bullet ,with a highly streamline bullet some meant for extremely long range. The 0/6 with a streamline 180 grain bullet meant for elk at long distance will hold up for a long ways. Btw, i do not own an 0/6 so that part of the argument will not stand. These streamline bullets will not do too good on deer and antelope at close ranges. The elk bullets are constructed to expand on things with thicker hides. I know the 6.5 bus has caught, on with a lot of shooters getting on it. I have had a 260 remington ever since they came out also. Some of the long range bullets will explode inside the animal but what about blood shot shoulders. A 120 grain 6.5 should be more of a deer cartridge because of the thin shelled jacket compare that to a deer designed bullet for 270 130 grain, 140 grain 7mm and 30/06 150 grain. At that point the 270 will win with 130 grainthe 280 close behind.with the 140. Case capacity matters most. I know the 6.5 diameter is on fire right now and probably will remain so for some time. It has long range bullets meant for target shooting. Hornady has done a lot for support for the 6.5 cause.with excellent bullets and so has berger and others. It will remain a popular cartridge for many years. Personally i like the 270 for most hunting, but to each his own. Btw compare a 6.5 140, with a 7mm 180 grain to balance this discussion. The 180 target bullet will surprise you
     
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  6. jmcmath

    jmcmath Well-Known Member

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    I understand the handicap I am placing on the 0/6... I am an 0/6 shooter and love that cartridge.

    For fun consider the heavier 0/6 I listed. How do you feel about the 178 eldx-0/6 vs the 143 eldx-prc or the 140 Berger-6.5/284?

    Those all carry extremely similar energy numbers.
     
  7. Heavyiron

    Heavyiron Well-Known Member LRH Team Member

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    I like the bigger cases to push target bullets, but you have to consider that recoil will eventually get you. The 6.5 284 was invented for old guys like me that get recoil headaches. If i was target shooting i would use a 6.5 06 or a 6.5 284, plenty of energy and very comparable to the 300 win mag with the aerdynamic bullets. 6.5 will win over time. 30/06 just my own opinion does not have the case capacity to push the heavy bullets long range. I was using an 0/6 back in the 70's and at that time the 165 grain bullet was considered the perfect bullet with powders available at that time. Powders change and now we have all the excellent reloader powders available. The 264 win mag has been a stepchild since remington came out with the 7mm rem mag. It would be interesting to load it with the aerodynamic 6.5 bullets and reloader 26. It probably would catch on quickly. I have seen in my lifetime, factories try to kill off the 270 and the 30/06 several times. All this amounts to selling new rifles and putting your old ones in the closet. Remington advertised the 260 with the 140 grain bullet as having more power at 200 yards than the 270 with the 130 grain bullet and then sold guns with 1in9 and some 1in10 twist. They peed in their cheerios because the 140 would not stabalize out of rifles with the slower twist. That caused a lot of people that did not understand twist but did find accuracy very poor.
     
  8. toddc

    toddc Well-Known Member

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    Do some study on SD or Sectional Density and you will be able to figure an expected behavior upon impact. Math says that a 150gr 6.5,mm will penetrate further than a 7.62 150gr. Longer bullets penetrate deeper all else being equal. I shoot a lot of stuff with the Berger 115 6MM running 3100FPS and it will penetrate an unbelievable distance compared to a 120gr 7mm.
     
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  9. Heavyiron

    Heavyiron Well-Known Member LRH Team Member

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    I tend to agree with you on the math of longer bullets penetrating better. I believe that the main reason the small calibers with long bullets caught on is the scopes available now allow hits at long range. With the rainbow trajectory figuring holdover is nill now. A few years ago this was not possible. Back when scopes did not have this feature the big cases won out because of the holdover theory. Hunters used years ago before these wonder scopes the 3 inches high at 100 yards. I still do because of the costs of these new scopes. Being retired limits a lot of things like expensive scopes