Winchester bore and cast bullets leading

Tac-O

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I would honestly try eliminating the duplex load, I know that fouling will be an issue, so make sure you use a good over powder wad, but just to see if it helps with the leading. Are you getting a decent lube star at the muzzle? What kind of lube are you using? I shoot a lot of cast bullets, I have gone to powder coated for everything except for my Sharps and BP.

I was thinking that the next time I try the softer bullets I have I'll go straight BP. The guy that sent them to me uses them with BP. They are the Lyman 457193 405gr. And our lubed with spg. I tried them first with the 7 grain 4227 duplex and a 0.462 wad cut from a cereal box that was 0.025 thick. Accuracy was poor, and I had leading throughout the barrel. Then I tried a 4 grain duplex with an HDPE wad at 0.025 thick. Accuracy was better, but the leading was pretty much the same. I had a greasy star at the muzzle with these bullets.

I had been thinking that the wad is supposed to protect the base of the bullet from gas cutting, deformation, melting, etc. But apparently that isn't so? So what does the wad do other than allow a person to alter the compression for a given BP charge?
 

AKBman

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SPG is good lube, and the wad does provide protection for the base of the bullet. My wads are .060 cardboard for my Sharps in 45/70 (2.1"). I am shooting 66 grains of GOEX FFg, my barrel is 34" and I get very minimal leading if any during a days shooting. My bullets are air cooled aircraft ballast, 535gr and sized to .459. Let me do some research in my old SPG black powder book on your 45 2.4".
 

wonderman4

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All this crapola about 25BHN is BS. I do not believe in hard cast anything. Much more important than hardness is bullet fit and bullet lube.

You want to get a bullet 0.002" larger than the bore diameter. Even 0.003" won't hurt.

Next is a good quality lube. These guys will talk to you: https://lsstuff.com/

I have been shooting cast bullets since 1969 (all my own making) and went thru the hardness thing and have settled on wheel weights being the hardest that I will make. Most of them are softer.

Don't believe me?? Check out this link and open your eyes: https://forum.castbulletassoc.org/thread/13059-testing-bullet-lubes-at-3000-fps/
 

Lefty7mmstw

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The only cast bullet I've shot and had horrible accuracy with is the 288 Lyman mold for my 405. It just isn't casting big enough. I switched to a RCBS mold for a 416 and ran it through the same .413 die. The bullet rebounds to .414 and shoots well enough with a gas check using rl10 and Lyman Moly lube. I may still play with the load, but it's better than the other pill ever could do even with a basewad already.
It doesn't hurt to have a couple hundred rounds of jacketed rounds through the barrel to smooth it out before running cast through it. A decent alternative is a good scrubbing with fine compound like JB but a bit of wear in never hurts a bit. A barrel for cast bullets ought to narrow a bit toward the muzzle so a bit of throat wear isn't a bad deal.
My 375 [email protected] shoots a Lyman #449 with a gas check to 1700 fps and will hold below 2 moa.
I run wheelweights that are water quenched and have never had leading issues in a decent quality barrel...
We have had a couple of Colt 45 auto barrels that wouldn't do well with cast even after a good JB scrubbing, but the 45 auto is an odd duck with the shallow rifling; standard ballard type rifling will grab cast better without allowing skidding. Even my Beretta 96 does well with Lee 175 cast pushed by blue dot.
I also run cast through my 44 and my 357's using wheelweights and Lyman black from Lee, Lyman, and Rcbs molds. From a pistol I aim for 1,000 to 1200 fps (whatever the chosen powder tosses good groups at) and call it a day.
 

arch408

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If you want zero leading load your powder, add a small cotton wad, add 5 to 10 grains of Cream Of Wheat so you have enough the seated bullet will compress it slightly. You get a number of benefits, the cow works like a gas check, also helps seal the bore so you don't get gas blow by but it also cleans the bore spic and span clean. It makes the bore so clean you need to ensure you lube at the end of shooting.
Though, i have never seen it, I have read that fillers can sometimes cause “ringing” in the chamber. So to err on the side of caution, I won‘t use fillers. I know many reloaders have been using them for decades. I don’t want to take that chance. I have always had good results not using them. Back in the old days, I always had excellent results with SR4759. It is now obsolete. I have had excellent results with 5744 and Shooters World Buffalo Rifle powder. I actually like Buffalo Rifle powder better because the grains are smaller and meters better.
 

arch408

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Dec 6, 2012
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379
I would honestly try eliminating the duplex load, I know that fouling will be an issue, so make sure you use a good over powder wad, but just to see if it helps with the leading. Are you getting a decent lube star at the muzzle? What kind of lube are you using? I shoot a lot of cast bullets, I have gone to powder coated for everything except for my Sharps and BP.
I hate to pass on rumors, but at our last Long Range Cowboy shoot, there was a gentleman from some where in Montana and the said powder coated bullets were not allowed on his range because there were cases on rifles using them were blowing up. I didn't pay too much attention to what he was saying because I don’t powder coat and never intend to.
 

AKBman

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Honestly doubt powder coated bullets were the issue. They have a lot less friction than traditional jacketed bullets, not much different than paper patch, just much more modern.
 

JSHKS

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Nov 26, 2017
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Skidding, I had hard cast and Linotype shoved down my throat for a long time, hard, hard.
Buddy and I shot nothing but cast for about a dozen years. Played with lotsa wheel guns and I touched on 45 ACP some. We found through a bunch of trial and error, softer will grab, when hard skids then grabs.

I don’t really like gas checks, but.......they will eliminate some problems.

If the OP doesn’t have this sorted out yet, I would suggest a complete start over from square one.
Slug the bore ( again). Is there a loose spot in the middle, does the barrel have some choke?

I always try to taylor my CB’s to a specific rig. I seldom if ever load a generic load for multi purpose. Yeah it’s a pita, but I am well rewarded on target.
 

Hespco

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In my Marlin 45-70 I shoot a 350gr Saeco mold bullet with a gas check. My LBT BHN tester shows 12. I use 36grs of IMR 4198 for about 1500+ fps. I'm using a 2-7 variable scope set at 7 for sighting in. Groups run about 1 1/2" @ 100yds. Slight , very slight grey residue left in the last 3 to 4" of barrel. 4 or 5 strokes with a bronze brush takes it right out. Lube is LBT blue, soft. 24" Bbl .
 

Montana'eer

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Mar 3, 2020
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Never heard of a front stuffer using a gas check.

Patched round ball is in essence a gas check. That's all I used to target shoot when I was younger (it was the most affordable). I learned a lot from some guys that were religious with their muzzies. Some of these guys were AMAZINGLY accurate with handmade rifles. Literally snuffing candles off hand at 50-100 yards.

We used to play 'cut the bull' and try to shoot out the center ring.

axsi7OZ.jpg


Big plus with patched? No leading.
 

Montana'eer

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In my Marlin 45-70 I shoot a 350gr Saeco mold bullet with a gas check. My LBT BHN tester shows 12. I use 36grs of IMR 4198 for about 1500+ fps. I'm using a 2-7 variable scope set at 7 for sighting in. Groups run about 1 1/2" @ 100yds. Slight , very slight grey residue left in the last 3 to 4" of barrel. 4 or 5 strokes with a bronze brush takes it right out. Lube is LBT blue, soft. 24" Bbl .
I'm beginning to fall down that rabbit hole- learning to cast. I have a Marlin .45-70 and a .44mag lever. Maybe I'll tap at you for some pointers.
 

Tac-O

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Patched round ball is in essence a gas check. That's all I used to target shoot when I was younger (it was the most affordable). I learned a lot from some guys that were religious with their muzzies. Some of these guys were AMAZINGLY accurate with handmade rifles. Literally snuffing candles off hand at 50-100 yards.

We used to play 'cut the bull' and try to shoot out the center ring.

axsi7OZ.jpg


Big plus with patched? No leading.
Nice shooting 👍 a hawken or Kentucky long is in my future at some point.
 
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