sscoyote
Well-Known Member
Anybody ever use his products yet??-- He's advertising some high BC bullets for .224 on up. Any comments? 50-- u gave me his contact info-- what do u think??
Wildcat Bullets?
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Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
SS,
I have actually come to really respect the performance of the Wildcat bullets, I have used them in .257", .264", .284" and .338" and they have all shot very well except the 140 gr bonded core HP in the 6.5mm which I was testing out of my 6.5mm WSM.
Richard tells me that this bullet only shoots well when driven to the max and my handgun was not quite up to the challange.
All other bullets I have tested have shot extremely well, in fact to almost scary group sizes in some of my rifle.
My 338 Kahn shoots his 300 gr ULD RBT into the high .2's at 100 yards and averging slightly under 1" at 500 yards for three shot groups.
I am using his 100 and 130 gr bonded Core FBHP in my 257 STW loaded to 4000 and 3500 fps respecitvely and at 100 yards they are grouping in the .3's which is not bad for a true big game bullet launched at these velocities from a 30" #6 contour barrel.
At 500 yards the 100 gr pills are holding slightly under 2", three shot group averages.
The 130 gr version is printing 1 1/4" groups at the same 500 yards.
His 142 gr ULD RBT has also produced some very tight groups out of my 6.5-06 AI, in fact a few have been in the low .2's. The Sierra 142's will group in the .4's out of this rifle.
I have some test loads ready to go for my 300 RUM using the Wildcat 190 gr ULD RBT which is designed for big game huntig as it has a ticker tapered jacket.
I have just been so busy building rifles that I have not had a chance to test them yet.
Just to show you how impressed I am with the Wildcat bullets, Richard and myself are going together to design a new family or extreme performance hunting rounds.
These three rounds built around the 25, 6.5 and 270 calibers will take these rounds to performance levels they have never seen.
I will not give any specifics but Richard is designing the bullets, I am designing the cases(with Richards input) and the rifles.
The first will be the 257 Allen Magnum which will shoot the 130 gr, 145 gr and 150 gr Wildcat bullets which are prototypes at the moment.
The reamer for his new round is being built as we speak and I am very excited about releasing this round to the public.
My 257 will out perform the 257 STW by another 150 fps but better yet, it will be designed to shoot the very heavy 130, 145 and 150 gr bullets.
B.C. wise, the 130 BCFBHP is right at .550. The 145 gr FBSP will be in the .6 range and the 150 gr will be in the low .6's.
Richard is also designing a prototype 145 gr ULD RBT bullet in 25 caliber which should have a B.C. in teh .7 range.
Now those bullets combined with my new case design which is quite new in its design, will turn the 25 caliber into an true 1000 yard rifle.
Just figure the S.D. on those three bullets!!!
Anyway, the 257 AM will be the first released and probably the 6.5 second with the 270 version being third.
I am also designing a 6mm AM which uses a shorter case but will use the Wildcat 110 gr and 115 gr bonded Core FBHP's.
For those that do not feel a flat base can have a high B.C., the 100 gr .257" bonded core FBHP has a B.C. of .480.
This has been verified by bullet drop testing out to 500 yards.
Anyway, I guess you could say I endorse Richards bullets.
I am also building a 1000 yard rifle at the moment chambered in 22-6mm AI with a fast twist barrel which I will use his 80 gr ULD RBTs in for the customers loads. I will report on those when the rifle is ready to ship.
Good Shooting,
Kirby Allen(50)
I have actually come to really respect the performance of the Wildcat bullets, I have used them in .257", .264", .284" and .338" and they have all shot very well except the 140 gr bonded core HP in the 6.5mm which I was testing out of my 6.5mm WSM.
Richard tells me that this bullet only shoots well when driven to the max and my handgun was not quite up to the challange.
All other bullets I have tested have shot extremely well, in fact to almost scary group sizes in some of my rifle.
My 338 Kahn shoots his 300 gr ULD RBT into the high .2's at 100 yards and averging slightly under 1" at 500 yards for three shot groups.
I am using his 100 and 130 gr bonded Core FBHP in my 257 STW loaded to 4000 and 3500 fps respecitvely and at 100 yards they are grouping in the .3's which is not bad for a true big game bullet launched at these velocities from a 30" #6 contour barrel.
At 500 yards the 100 gr pills are holding slightly under 2", three shot group averages.
The 130 gr version is printing 1 1/4" groups at the same 500 yards.
His 142 gr ULD RBT has also produced some very tight groups out of my 6.5-06 AI, in fact a few have been in the low .2's. The Sierra 142's will group in the .4's out of this rifle.
I have some test loads ready to go for my 300 RUM using the Wildcat 190 gr ULD RBT which is designed for big game huntig as it has a ticker tapered jacket.
I have just been so busy building rifles that I have not had a chance to test them yet.
Just to show you how impressed I am with the Wildcat bullets, Richard and myself are going together to design a new family or extreme performance hunting rounds.
These three rounds built around the 25, 6.5 and 270 calibers will take these rounds to performance levels they have never seen.
I will not give any specifics but Richard is designing the bullets, I am designing the cases(with Richards input) and the rifles.
The first will be the 257 Allen Magnum which will shoot the 130 gr, 145 gr and 150 gr Wildcat bullets which are prototypes at the moment.
The reamer for his new round is being built as we speak and I am very excited about releasing this round to the public.
My 257 will out perform the 257 STW by another 150 fps but better yet, it will be designed to shoot the very heavy 130, 145 and 150 gr bullets.
B.C. wise, the 130 BCFBHP is right at .550. The 145 gr FBSP will be in the .6 range and the 150 gr will be in the low .6's.
Richard is also designing a prototype 145 gr ULD RBT bullet in 25 caliber which should have a B.C. in teh .7 range.
Now those bullets combined with my new case design which is quite new in its design, will turn the 25 caliber into an true 1000 yard rifle.
Just figure the S.D. on those three bullets!!!
Anyway, the 257 AM will be the first released and probably the 6.5 second with the 270 version being third.
I am also designing a 6mm AM which uses a shorter case but will use the Wildcat 110 gr and 115 gr bonded Core FBHP's.
For those that do not feel a flat base can have a high B.C., the 100 gr .257" bonded core FBHP has a B.C. of .480.
This has been verified by bullet drop testing out to 500 yards.
Anyway, I guess you could say I endorse Richards bullets.
I am also building a 1000 yard rifle at the moment chambered in 22-6mm AI with a fast twist barrel which I will use his 80 gr ULD RBTs in for the customers loads. I will report on those when the rifle is ready to ship.
Good Shooting,
Kirby Allen(50)
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Varmint Hunter,
Contact Richard Graves, owner of Wildcat Bullets at:
Phone:780-352-8592
or
E-Mail: [email protected]
He is a great guy to talk with. He will have the information you need.
There is no web page for Wildcat Bullets but if you send Richard an e-mail he is very quick to respond, unless he is out hunting! then it may be a day or two.
Good Shooting!!!
Kirby Allen(50)
Contact Richard Graves, owner of Wildcat Bullets at:
Phone:780-352-8592
or
E-Mail: [email protected]
He is a great guy to talk with. He will have the information you need.
There is no web page for Wildcat Bullets but if you send Richard an e-mail he is very quick to respond, unless he is out hunting! then it may be a day or two.
Good Shooting!!!
Kirby Allen(50)
G
Guest
Guest
Hi Kirby
May I pick your brains over the 22/6mm AI?
What twist are you doing the 22/6mm AI in?
Is this reamer similar to the .224 Clark?
If not how does it differ?
What length barrel and what velocity are you aiming for?
What is the BC of these 80gr .224 Wildcats?
I am having a similar rifle built by GAP.
Thanks
APB
[ 10-30-2004: Message edited by: aussie powder burner ]
May I pick your brains over the 22/6mm AI?
What twist are you doing the 22/6mm AI in?
Is this reamer similar to the .224 Clark?
If not how does it differ?
What length barrel and what velocity are you aiming for?
What is the BC of these 80gr .224 Wildcats?
I am having a similar rifle built by GAP.
Thanks
APB
[ 10-30-2004: Message edited by: aussie powder burner ]
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
Does "Wildcat Bullets" have a web site?
Where are bullets purchased and where can one find ballistic data and prices?
Where are bullets purchased and where can one find ballistic data and prices?
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Aussie PB,
The 22-6mm AI is basically a 224 Clark Improved.
I am hoping to get 3600-3700 fps with the 80 gr ULD bullets which have a B.C. in the high .5 range.
THe rifle has a 30" Lilja 3 groove stainless steel 1.250" straight cylinder barrel with six .312" flutes.
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
The 22-6mm AI is basically a 224 Clark Improved.
I am hoping to get 3600-3700 fps with the 80 gr ULD bullets which have a B.C. in the high .5 range.
THe rifle has a 30" Lilja 3 groove stainless steel 1.250" straight cylinder barrel with six .312" flutes.
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
sscoyote
Well-Known Member
Hey 50. thks. for the info. i'd like to be kept posted if possible on your cartridge project-- would be some GRREAT material for a future article.
johnny k.
Well-Known Member
Hey Kirby,
Keep us all posted. It's great that someone is finally bringing the .257/.264/.277 into the long-range arena with what sounds like outstanding hunting bullets. Even the 6mm with 110/115gr pills is interesting.
I have a LA 700 Sendero (7mm RM) that needs a new tube on'er. Sounds like a good candidate for the .257STW or one of the AM's. Can the brass for the AM's be made from an existing case or not? Later, Johnny K.
Keep us all posted. It's great that someone is finally bringing the .257/.264/.277 into the long-range arena with what sounds like outstanding hunting bullets. Even the 6mm with 110/115gr pills is interesting.
I have a LA 700 Sendero (7mm RM) that needs a new tube on'er. Sounds like a good candidate for the .257STW or one of the AM's. Can the brass for the AM's be made from an existing case or not? Later, Johnny K.
brianwinzor
Well-Known Member
Fifty Driver,
I think you are being ultra conservative (admirable trait) once again, on your predicted velocities for the 22/6mm AI of 3600 - 3700 with the 80 grain bullet out of a 30 inch barrel.
My "unimproved Clark" with 30 degree shoulder achieved 3,735 fps (56.5 grains H1000) at maximum pressure with the 80 grain Sierra in a 25.25 inch barrel.
The case when stuffed with as much H870 as I could fit in (61.5 grains), produced 3,663 fps at mild to normal pressure.
Several other users of the 22/6mm AI with 40 degree shoulder who I have swapped notes with, achieved velocities of around 3,750 fps with 26 - 27 inch barrels. So I predict you will be pleasantly surprised at what your 30 inch barrel might produce.
I am in the planning stage of my next .224 Clark, and yesterday emailed Richard Graves to see whether the new .224 dies he was waiting on, could make bullets of 85 grains or heavier.
I will be interested to hear how your 22/6mm AI project progresses. Regards, Brian.
I think you are being ultra conservative (admirable trait) once again, on your predicted velocities for the 22/6mm AI of 3600 - 3700 with the 80 grain bullet out of a 30 inch barrel.
My "unimproved Clark" with 30 degree shoulder achieved 3,735 fps (56.5 grains H1000) at maximum pressure with the 80 grain Sierra in a 25.25 inch barrel.
The case when stuffed with as much H870 as I could fit in (61.5 grains), produced 3,663 fps at mild to normal pressure.
Several other users of the 22/6mm AI with 40 degree shoulder who I have swapped notes with, achieved velocities of around 3,750 fps with 26 - 27 inch barrels. So I predict you will be pleasantly surprised at what your 30 inch barrel might produce.
I am in the planning stage of my next .224 Clark, and yesterday emailed Richard Graves to see whether the new .224 dies he was waiting on, could make bullets of 85 grains or heavier.
I will be interested to hear how your 22/6mm AI project progresses. Regards, Brian.
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
Brian is probably correct about a conservative estimate. My 22/243AI will shoot 80gr bullts at >3,600 ft/sec.
My favioite load consists of a max charge of RE 22 under a 75gr A-Max (moly) bullet for an average velocity of 3,670 ft/sec. Accuracy is incredible.
Groundhogs HATE that load.
[ 11-01-2004: Message edited by: Varmint Hunter ]
My favioite load consists of a max charge of RE 22 under a 75gr A-Max (moly) bullet for an average velocity of 3,670 ft/sec. Accuracy is incredible.
Groundhogs HATE that load.
[ 11-01-2004: Message edited by: Varmint Hunter ]
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
You will all learn that when I give velocity expectations, I am usually leaning on the conservative side of things.
I guess when a customer takes one of my rifles home and is able to get a little more velocity then I predicted, they are much satisfied with their new rifle then if they miss the velocity goals.
As far as the AM rounds go, they are designed around a parent case that is very common and will be easy to form. Once I have hard data I will release much more information on these rounds.
The AM rounds will be cold formed and then they will fireform to their modified configuration similiar to the design of the crush fit in the Ackley rounds though not quite as severe.
Good Shooting!!!
Kirby Allen(50)
I guess when a customer takes one of my rifles home and is able to get a little more velocity then I predicted, they are much satisfied with their new rifle then if they miss the velocity goals.
As far as the AM rounds go, they are designed around a parent case that is very common and will be easy to form. Once I have hard data I will release much more information on these rounds.
The AM rounds will be cold formed and then they will fireform to their modified configuration similiar to the design of the crush fit in the Ackley rounds though not quite as severe.
Good Shooting!!!
Kirby Allen(50)
One question I have is what are you seeing for barrel life on the 22/6mmAI and the 22/243AI at these velocities. I witnessed a 22-284 barrel go south in less than 1000 rounds and it's powder capacity is not that much greater, it was a 6 groove barrel and I know my 3's hold up better in other caliber's.
B
p.s.Varmint Hunter nice pic.
B
p.s.Varmint Hunter nice pic.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Brian,
I have a fair amount of 22-6mm AI rifles out right now but only one that ahs any real number for roudns through it.
This rifle was designed with a standard 1-14" twist for the 55 gr Sierra Blitzking bullets.
The load I developed with this bullet was with 55 gr Rl-22 over a CCI-200 primer. This load is punching the 55 gr tipped pill out at 4200 fps out of the 27" barrel and when it left the shop it was shooting an average of .298" ctc for five three shot groups.
I recently had the owner bring the rifle back and we range tested it and it averaged .549" for five, 5 shot groups with this same load and the average velocity had dropped to 4135 fps.
The throat is warn pretty bad and the origins of the lands are eroded back several thousandths but the rifle still shoots very well.
In fact, we loaded up some test loads seating the bullet farther out to get back to the lands and those two groups were in the .3's but velocity was still less at around 4140 fps.
Can't replace the worn throat but this is still a screamer of a round and still going strong.
The rifle jsut topped 1200 rounds but the owner does take very good care of the bore. I expect him to get around 1500 to 1700 rounds through it before he has it rebarreled again.
On average, I would say that this is a 1000 to 1200 round rifle for sub 1/2 moa grouping.
Not a high volume varmint round by any means but with the heavy pills, it will last a lifetime of shooting for most shooters.
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
I have a fair amount of 22-6mm AI rifles out right now but only one that ahs any real number for roudns through it.
This rifle was designed with a standard 1-14" twist for the 55 gr Sierra Blitzking bullets.
The load I developed with this bullet was with 55 gr Rl-22 over a CCI-200 primer. This load is punching the 55 gr tipped pill out at 4200 fps out of the 27" barrel and when it left the shop it was shooting an average of .298" ctc for five three shot groups.
I recently had the owner bring the rifle back and we range tested it and it averaged .549" for five, 5 shot groups with this same load and the average velocity had dropped to 4135 fps.
The throat is warn pretty bad and the origins of the lands are eroded back several thousandths but the rifle still shoots very well.
In fact, we loaded up some test loads seating the bullet farther out to get back to the lands and those two groups were in the .3's but velocity was still less at around 4140 fps.
Can't replace the worn throat but this is still a screamer of a round and still going strong.
The rifle jsut topped 1200 rounds but the owner does take very good care of the bore. I expect him to get around 1500 to 1700 rounds through it before he has it rebarreled again.
On average, I would say that this is a 1000 to 1200 round rifle for sub 1/2 moa grouping.
Not a high volume varmint round by any means but with the heavy pills, it will last a lifetime of shooting for most shooters.
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
Not to throw a wrench in the party here but i got some of the Wildcat 338's and here are my thoughts.
1) The meplat is too large for the caliber ging a poor BC number
2) The rebated boattail has too big of a step which will hurt accuracy
3) The lead core extends all the way to the top of the meplat.If J4 jackets were used this could be a potential problem as jacket stress at maximum acceleration will be compromised.
In my humble opinion you will get better accuracy and less recoil using a 300 gr Sierra and a better BC number.The whole reason to choose a 338 over a 30 caliber in the first place is to get that high BC number.I have only looked at the 338 bullets in 2 weights and haven't looked at his other bullets so won't comment.
Lynn
1) The meplat is too large for the caliber ging a poor BC number
2) The rebated boattail has too big of a step which will hurt accuracy
3) The lead core extends all the way to the top of the meplat.If J4 jackets were used this could be a potential problem as jacket stress at maximum acceleration will be compromised.
In my humble opinion you will get better accuracy and less recoil using a 300 gr Sierra and a better BC number.The whole reason to choose a 338 over a 30 caliber in the first place is to get that high BC number.I have only looked at the 338 bullets in 2 weights and haven't looked at his other bullets so won't comment.
Lynn
