wich 30. caliber

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by PEEWEE69, Jan 7, 2013.


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  1. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    Plus 1

    On the subject of brakes and hunting with guides and PH's, the vast majority will not like to see their client with a braked rifle for obvious reasons, unless they specifically cater to LR hunting. In Afirca, most PH's will probably want you to be within 400 yds of your game, unless again, they cater to LR.

    Also, if you read that other thread, they prefer light cartridges for non-dangerous game.

    If you get a RUM and get it braked, you can always have a cap made so you can screw the brake off and fire without the brake. This will probably change your POI. Shooting an unbraked RUM in a standing postion is not so bad, but on the bench or prone, it will really get your attention.

    I have an unbraked Sendero 300 RUM and have abut 500-600 rounds through it. I use a slip-on recoil pad and i can shoot it all day just fine. That said, I'm having another 300 RUM built and having a brake installed because it will be much more pleasant shooting and I can get on target quickly after shots which can be critical in LR.

    Personally, I think you are trying to get one gun to do 2 different things met for 2 different guns. Get a LR elk rifle and get an African Plains rifle... you might already have an African Plains rifle.
     
  2. dragman

    dragman Well-Known Member

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    I have a few Vias's and a hand full of others on my guns and most of my hunting is mixed spot and stock and long range. the Vias is a little less noisy IMHO than other brakes. I agree there are better brakes out there the Vias is just an easy one to find and depending on the gunsmith or shop he gets to install it it's nice because they come pretty close to finished unlike some others. I have not used a lot of the brakes that others listed. My exsperince is with Harrels, Vias, Browning (Boss) and magnaport. and on my hunting guns I like the Vias.

    I am glad she is performing for you. I gotta say that is one of only a couple guns I have sold that I have regrets! If you ever put her back up for sale please give me first crack.

    Blake
     
  3. Vanbrady

    Vanbrady New Member

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    That's fine. I was just offering another point of view. I hope the rifle build goes well for you.
     
  4. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    Till the first time you try shooting it prone in sand or a dry dusty pasture.

    Then you'll spend the next five minutes wondering if you hit anything choking on the dust and sand and wondering just where the hell the tornado came from! gun)
     
  5. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    Umm no.

    That's just one set of options ignoring everything in between.
     
  6. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    They are all screwed on except for a very few which can be cut directly into an existing barrel on a custom job.

    The Gentry is nice for everything but shooting prone. You can order them from Midway or Brownells and have your gunsmith do the final fitting.

    I've shot a lot of different style brakes and the one I like best (Including the Gentry on my 300 Rum) is the Snowy Mountain Rifle Company brake.

    Not bad on the ears at all and works phenomenally well. Well enough I'm going to have them installed on five of my other rifles this year.

    Muzzle Brakes

    Heck you can send them your rifle and they'll do you a turn key install for 160.00 and man that ain't bad!
     
  7. sp6x6

    sp6x6 Well-Known Member

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    Peewee,Been lots of good posts.Said you wanted something a bit more.It was brought up 300 Norma, not to be confused w/308 norma. Based off a 416 rigby same as 338 Norma mag. Case capacity h20 in my 338 is 108 grains. This is a substantial cartridge and worth consideration.Do a search on this site for more detailed info.
     
  8. FEENIX

    FEENIX Well-Known Member LRH Team Member

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    I too am a big fan of the .300 Win Mag!

    Have you considered the Lazzeroni 7.82 warbird pushing the 190 LVD 3425 off the muzzle from 27" barrel (Long Magnum Cartridges).

    or

    One of Kirby Allen's (Home Page) 300 wildcats, like ...

    300 Allen Xpress
    338 Lapua Magnum parent case, necked to 30 cal and fireformed to the Allen Magnum shoulder and body configuration.
    180 gr. (3450 to 3550 fps in 27-30” barrel) to 265 gr. ULD RBBT(3000-3100 fps in 27-30” barrel)
    Designed for medium to heavy game at long range, deer, elk and moose specifically
    Appropriate powders: H-1000, Retumbo, Rl-25, US869


    Good luck!


    Ed
     
  9. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ Oh yeah :D.


    t
     
  10. Fergus Bailey

    Fergus Bailey Well-Known Member

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    There have been a lot of different comments over the course of this thread, and I will chime in with my thinking on a lot of these issues... FWIW. I didn’t mean to write an essay, but I still seem to have done!

    Best 300... I have hunted a lot with a custom Rem 700 in 308 Baer (one of many improved 300 Wby style cases available). The rifle has performed very well for me, but I chambered the rifle originally with my match reamer and got sick of turning case necks for a tight neck chamber, so recently rechambered to a 300 RUM. I would recommend either a 300 Win Mag or a 300 RUM, depending on what the shooter felt most comfortable with. Out to 800 or so yards, there is no doubt the 300 WM will do the job, though personally I lean towards the 300 RUM. Either of these cartridges with a 1/10” twist barrel, in a well made rifle, will cover a LOT of hunting situations.

    Muzzle brakes is one of the more contentious issues in our sport, and there are a lot of people that strongly advocate against them. I dont get that argument, and am strongly in the camp of using a brake. I hunt with hearing protection, and much prefer the precision I can get from a braked rifle (the brake allows me to shoot the rifle more accurately, I’m not suggesting the brake makes the rifle more accurate). As to which brake, in my opinion we have seen innovation in brakes, much like we have seen innovation in many other areas of the shooting sports. In my view, radial brakes like the Vais simply represent an earlier generation. What I consider to be second generation brakes are better at reducing recoil, and also directing the muzzle gasses in ways that avoid blowing dirt & debris all over when shooting from prone, etc while improving further on the task of actual recoil reduction. I have personally used a few Defensive Edge brakes and have no problem recommending them. I currently have an Allen Precision brake coming and have high hopes for that based on what I see in the design. I use screw on brakes, but only screw them off to clean the barrel, or to make transporting a long barrel rifle easier. I agree that brakes are generally not too aesthetically pleasing, but then my long range hunting rifles are not likely to excite many rifle “purists” anyway.

    On the issue of brake during guided hunts, it is true that guides may not like them. But it is also true that guides like clients that can hit what they are aiming at. Most guides in my experience (which is mainly limited to African hunting) will accommodate a client with a brake, and many guides now carry some form of hearing protection. I dont believe this factor is a key decision criteria on how you configure your rifle, however I DO recommend you add it to your list of questions for selecting a prospective outfitter.

    Also on the topic of selecting a hunt, there are several points that are implied in your rifle selection questions that you should consider when making your choice of a hunting destination. In many parts of Africa, guides consider 100 yards to be a long shot – and are very uncomfortable even considering a shot beyond 200 yards. So you need to discuss your expectations in detail before you book a hunt, just like you do with other factors like the species and trophy quality of game you expect to see on your hunt. The other factor is the type of terrain you will be hunting, as the cover may make any type of long shot impossible. The greatest exception to shooting further than 100 or so yards that I have found in Africa is Namibia, where there is a lot more open country and guides are more likely to view 200 or even 300 yards as being acceptable or even necessary. In other parts of Africa, the cover is so dense, that shots are very short by necessity. On the average, African guides are used to clients that make great claims about their marksmanship, but on the average, these claims are not backed up in the field.

    When selecting your hunt, you would be well served to confirm in advance that: you will be hunting in country that allows shots out to the range you are expecting; that the guide will accept that it is ok to take a shot out to whatever you (the client) considers an acceptable range for a shot, and that they will not have any issue with the type of equipment and hunting style you are planning to apply. Then, once on the ground, you will need to show your guide that you can actually shoot as well as you say. Once your guide is confident in your abilities, they will generally work hard to find you the type of shots you are looking for.

    On the issue of the risk of losing ammo... where to begin. Firstly, I must say that it can happen. I have made 5 hunting trips to Africa, and hunted with a wildcat cartridge on 2 of these trips. I have not had a problem losing ammo on these trips, but that is due to luck more than anything else as I have had a couple of close calls. I have once had my rifle fail to arrive with my baggage (fortunately on my return home). And once travelling with a friend, our rifles arrived ok, but my friend’s bag had been off loaded before takeoff on an African domestic flight due to an over-loaded plane. In this case I was lucky since I was shooting my 308 Baer, so if my bag/ammo didnt arrive, there was zero chance of finding any locally, whereas my friend was using a 300 WM and was able to get ammo some from our guide. All that said, if you have painstakingly worked up a load for your factory chambering so you can hunt to any distance you are comfortable with, the loss of your ammo and replacement with a factory round will still derail your plans to a large extent. It is very unlikely you will find high BC, precision loaded ammo in camp or in town, so you will be shooting at much reduced distances to what you originally had in mind. Many camps will have a back-up rifle and ammo in camp, and you will probably be equally constrained with this combo. So in my view at least, you are not really at any greater or lesser risk than travelling with obscure ammo than common ammo in many cases.
     
  11. Fergus Bailey

    Fergus Bailey Well-Known Member

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    I like the "improved" versions of the 300 Wby a lot. There are quite a lot of tweaked 300 Wby cases out there, often with very minor differences, eg the 308 Baer, 300 Ackley, 300 Hart, etc, etc. These cartridges can be very accurate too, and have held a lot of long range records over the years (see Winning 1000-Yard Cartridges « Daily Bulletin as an example).

    I have done a lot of hunting with one version, and it worked very well for me, but there are down sides. Cases need to be fire formed, so that can get cumbersome and impacts on barrel life. The case designs vary somewhat, so you need to look at the dimensions to ensure you match the sizing die to the chambering reamer for best effect - this is true of any case chambering, but much more of an issue with wildcats. Dies sets are limited production, so are often more expensive than dies for SAMI cartridges.

    In the past I have experimented a LOT with wildcats, but am much more inclined to use a standardised chamber as they are usually a lot cheaper to buy, easier to find, and easier to sell on in the future. Today its rare that a wildcat offers any significant performance over a standardised case.
     
  12. jlreff

    jlreff Well-Known Member

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    300win, you got to remember that your ammo may get lost, on the trip. you can most likely find 300win. but find the odd ball stuff could be a be a issue.
     
  13. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    Agree with Fergus about 99%. I would say that that a good rifle, especially a good custom rifle will shoot just about anything well. I have found this to be true with my factory Senderos which shoot factory ammo very well. That said, factory ammo won't give the results of precision hand loads at longer ranges but would probably be good to 500 yds or so in a good rifle. So, I think that taking a rifle in a common cartridge to foreign lands is a good idea, as I would want to shoot my own that I am familiar with, in the event my ammo didn't make it.

    I totally agree on the brake issue, but having an unbraked rifle available for guided hunts will open up more opportunities as there will be more outfits willing to guide such a client. If an outfitter is OK with a brake, fine, take the braked rifle.

    Looking at the OP's list of current rifles, I would think the 270 WBY would be an excellent choice for the African Plains.... guessing that there would WBY ammo available in Africa....
     
  14. FEENIX

    FEENIX Well-Known Member LRH Team Member

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    With regards to ammo (regardless of your caliber choice) not making it over to Africa, why don't you send the ammo to your guide/outfitter way ahead before you get there. lightbulb