To be honest bud, I'm really not sure. You could try calling them and ask one of the tech guys. I would have thought they would chrome line the bore whilst the barrel is a blank, could be wrong.
Phil
Why is there no coatings used in rifle throats to slow erosion?
- Thread starter theflyonthewall
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To be honest bud, I'm really not sure. You could try calling them and ask one of the tech guys. I would have thought they would chrome line the bore whilst the barrel is a blank, could be wrong.
Phil
shortgrass
Well-Known Member
When a barrel is chrome lined, it all gets chromed. Rifling, throat, freebore, and chamber. It is done after the barrel is chambered, headspaced, and crowned. Chrome doesn't cut very well with high speed tools. As a matter of fact, it won't cut at all and will dull the day lights out of a reamer.
theflyonthewall
Well-Known Member
Right on shortgrass! Thank you for adding that. And the slight inconsistencies that are created with chrome lining is what makes for the claims of less accuracy by some, I suppose.
It would make sense anyway, that since the chroming is done AFTER tooling, then the end result has the potential to be less precise. Does this sound right to you?
shortgrass
Well-Known Member
I would expect so. Although the modern process is quit uniform. Chrome lining a barrel wasn't adopted solely for barrel longevity, its main purpose is to improve extraction in semi-automatic and automatic weapons. Chrome resists rust. It's a mil-spec thing.
theflyonthewall
Well-Known Member
Gotcha!
devins
Well-Known Member
If I can throw my two cents in on the original question too, I would say this, I can mill you a ceramic throat to fit your milled throat area and bond it to your barrel. Piece of cake. I can fire it for hardening and strengthening and even glaze it and polish it for you to the point that it can handle heat and be super hard and not be an issue of retaining any contamination. Shortgrass could mill the barrel and I can make the insert. He would have to tell you what he would charge to mill the relief but I don't think I would charge much more than $1500 to $2000 for the insert and probably around $200 to bond it into the barrel and clean it up. That is kinda the rub. It is not very cost efficient.
We didn't even get into the problems of what would happen when it eventually cracked and it would at some point down the road.
So a coating? Yeah we work with ceramics and porcelains attached to metal every day under extreme forces too. What do they all have in common. They will all fail at the junction at some point.
I know some of the world leaders in ceramics and porcelains bonded to alloys. Lots of thoughts on these ideas but not enough time to discuss that all right now. I can just tell you that is why I have one going off for melonite now.
We didn't even get into the problems of what would happen when it eventually cracked and it would at some point down the road.
So a coating? Yeah we work with ceramics and porcelains attached to metal every day under extreme forces too. What do they all have in common. They will all fail at the junction at some point.
I know some of the world leaders in ceramics and porcelains bonded to alloys. Lots of thoughts on these ideas but not enough time to discuss that all right now. I can just tell you that is why I have one going off for melonite now.
royinidaho
Well-Known Member
This place continues to amaze me with the talent/experience array!
Darn'd if I ain't one of the ones that would give it a go. Life's too short to not give it a try.
devins
Well-Known Member
To give you some numbers off of the top of my head, I saw some tests from 09 that showed cyclical forces applied at aproximately(they knew, but off of my head) 800 N/cm squared, most porcelains would run in the 100K to 150K cycles before fracturing but I work with a Lithium Disilicate Ceramic that they quit testing at 1 million cycles. That is some pretty durable stuff. It is hardened in a 860 degree C firing cylce that causes it to shrink a predictable amount and the surface can be extremely smooth. I should be able to tell you that number given a little time to retreave it.
Zirconia could also be used. The point of this is, it is possible now but we are going to have to get costs down to make it worth while. But if anyone is really wanting to try it I would be interested in seeing that too and I can scan and mill and fire these to within single digit micron specs. We would just need to run the numbers for the force generated to the bearing surface area on the proposed load to make sure we were using the appropriate material for the strength needed at maximum load and not just over a series of impacts, anyone?
Zirconia could also be used. The point of this is, it is possible now but we are going to have to get costs down to make it worth while. But if anyone is really wanting to try it I would be interested in seeing that too and I can scan and mill and fire these to within single digit micron specs. We would just need to run the numbers for the force generated to the bearing surface area on the proposed load to make sure we were using the appropriate material for the strength needed at maximum load and not just over a series of impacts, anyone?
devins
Well-Known Member
Hey Roy, I didn't say I didn't want to try it. I think we could do it and if we ran the numbers first it might show it to be worth while I am just saying we better spend some time on paper first, but if that looks good I am game. It would just be when would it break, if the numbers say 5000 cycles we may be onto something if they say 500 not so much. But we may come up with the next great thing, , who knows? Somebody come up with the force of impact experienced by the throat and how much surface area we are talking about and then we can convert that into a cylinder and look at what that would do to the equation.
. I think we could do it and if we ran the numbers first it might show it to be worth while I am just saying we better spend some time on paper first, but if that looks good I am game. It would just be when would it break, if the numbers say 5000 cycles we may be onto something if they say 500 not so much. But we may come up with the next great thing, , who knows? Somebody come up with the force of impact experienced by the throat and how much surface area we are talking about and then we can convert that into a cylinder and look at what that would do to the equation.devins
Well-Known Member
And so it is clear I am talking about a ceramic sleeve to be utilized in the throat area and bonded in place. The throat area could be milled out to a certain dimension and the sleeve made and then bonded into the barrel. The excess bonding agent cleaned out and polished and you are ready to go. (exept of a whole lot of variable, LOL)
royinidaho
Well-Known Member
Ok guys! Which of you is gonna pony up?
I could most probably sell the recent acquisition (read 375 Allen Mag, all up) for enough to get things goin' but then why would I need the process.
I'm thinkin' of some kind of large scale scam.
Where's Bernie M. when ya need him?If the process could be brought down to the same range as an ABS barrel it sure otta fly.
Speaking of flies, yo flyonthewall, any local money repositories that look like an easy touch?
I'll drive the get away moped!
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
Ok guys! Which of you is gonna pony up?
I could most probably sell the recent acquisition (read 375 Allen Mag, all up) for enough to get things goin' but then why would I need the process.
I'm thinkin' of some kind of large scale scam.
If the process could be brought down to the same range as an ABS barrel it sure otta fly.
Speaking of flies, yo flyonthewall, any local money repositories that look like an easy touch?
Roy ....I'm fresh outa' cash with my recent activities
.......Rich
royinidaho
Well-Known Member
Roy ....I'm fresh outa' cash with my recent activities
Roger that! Me too!!!
theflyonthewall
Well-Known Member
........................
Speaking of flies, yo flyonthewall, any local money repositories that look like an easy touch?
Sure Roy! There are lots of em. We could easily knock one off and be all set. The problem is that these people act like their in love with the loot *shrugs* I don't get it.......it's just a lot of money, why would they get mad if we used it all instead of them?.........people
................lol
