Why is 7mm not good in long range competition?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by StrayDog, Oct 13, 2004.

  1. StrayDog

    StrayDog Member

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    I am thinking about averages, as I know there must be a few extreme range 7mm guns.
    But as you look at the results of 1000 yard competitons it is mostly .300 mags or 6.5's?

    It seems a bit of a mystery to me that 7mm bullets usually have higher BC's but are not extreme range winners, can someone let us know what is going on with this?
     
  2. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

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    The 7mm is a wonderful cartridge and you will see more representation at the LR matches in the future. problem is recoil and available bullets.

    Really good bullets are coming on line that have BC equal/better then the 30cals. Now this helps with recoil in a heavy class.

    In a light class, the 7mm heavy bullets have more recoil then the 6.5. The 6.5 also has a great head start in available bullets/tech.

    The 6mm is also making headway with new bullets allowing this cal to shoot well at LR.

    Shooting is slow to change and as long as the winners use a particular cal/cartridge, others will follow.

    A 7mm WSM in a 28 to 30" barrel launching 162 AMAX/SST to 180gr custom bullets is going to work great in a heavy gun at 1000yds.

    Jerry
     
  3. budlight

    budlight Well-Known Member

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    I am the proud owner of a 28 inch target barreled 7mm wildcat STW. The standard production shells fire form to fit my slightly larger case dimensions.

    I bought it from someone who had it built to compete in 1000 yard competitions. He was never satisfied with the results. He told me that the .30’s and .338’s would always be a better choice. So he sold it to me and moved up to the 50BMG with a 42 inch barrel.

    It’s just an excellent gun. I use 175 SPBT’s and run them in my media tumbler to moly coat all the bullets it gives them a needle point for maybe a slightly better BC. I have done very well in 600 yard meets. I have not bought any of the 180’s referred to by the other poster. I mainly use mine for hunting these days. 5.5 X 22 nightforce scope.
     
  4. rost495

    rost495 Well-Known Member

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    7wsm set the mile accuracy record with 180 bergers not too long ago. Most folks have tried the 7 and don't quite get the accuracy as with the 6.5 from what they say. I'm still working on a 7wsm for a 1000 yard prone only gun. I am pretty sure it'll work as teh guy that used it for the mile record reports on his 2-3rd barrel still getting 5 inch groups at 1000 pretty easy. Maybe the case size has been found.

    Jeff
     
  5. StrayDog

    StrayDog Member

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    So at extreme range with hunting bullets like Scirroco, TSX, SST, Accubonds, etc., the 7 WSM may be as accurate or possibly more so than the .300 Win Mag.?

    [ 10-13-2004: Message edited by: StrayDog ]
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>7wsm set the mile accuracy record with 180 bergers not too long ago. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That has since been cut almost in half by a 30cal
     
  7. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

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    Straydog, for the same weight of bullet (165 to 180gr) and similar muzzle velocities, the 7mm offers a substantial increase in wind bucking ability and retained vel over the 30cals.

    Where the 30cals have an advantage is in very heavy VLD bullets (210 to 240gr). Here the impact energy is usually higher and wind bucking is similar.

    You need to define extreme range. For me, that is well over 1000m. Here I will only shoot the heavy 30's and better yet, the 338's. You need all the energy you can deliver to the target.

    If you are just target shooting, a high vel 7mm or 6.5 will do very well at ranges as far as you have elevation for.

    Any shortcomings in the 7mm for target shooting will be solved as better bullets and tech are developed. You never know with some upcoming interest in 8mm, this may also become a viable caliber.

    Jerry
     
  8. StrayDog

    StrayDog Member

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    My idea of extreme range for hunting would be vaguely between 400 out to say 700 yards.

    So, I was scanning the web for long range competiton results and it just seemed very odd that 7mm with the high BC's didn't appear to be equal to the 300 Ackley or Win Mags.
     
  9. budlight

    budlight Well-Known Member

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    Many years ago some of the highest scores were done with the 300 Weatherby mag.

    The 300 win mag has had some fine scores.

    Let's just say that within the last 15 years of Ultra mag guns in 1000 yard comp. shoots that the guys like me with the under dog .277 & .284's were never in the same class as the 30-378's and .338 lapua's.

    I'm sure that national class shooters with time could refine smaller dia. bullets to do the same.

    I have books on WW2 guns and the Germans made some anti light tank gun with a decreasing diameter barrel to attain @5000 fps carried by foot troops. It might be the gun to find to do anything you ever wanted.
     
  10. rost495

    rost495 Well-Known Member

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    Did not hear the mile record was rebroken. Where can I find that data. IIRC the record was like 11 inches at 1600 yards which is pretty impressive as it is. I'd love to see data on a 5 inch or so group at that distance. The 30s have always seemed to rule the long range target stuff. Everytime I asked about the 7s its the accuracy question. Though David Tubb said you could set records at 1000 with the 7 STW but could you afford the barrels?

    As to the hunting question-- I don't think that the 7mm is ideal for longer shots. I"d much prefer 30-338 cal for anything thats 500 yards and longer. A bit more punch.
     
  11. StrayDog

    StrayDog Member

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    I am wanting a rifle light enough to carry around hunting. I was just looking to the other world of target rifles for some tips, but it may not be an accurate interface. Comparing the results of Berger and other match bullets with results from TSX, Accubonds etc. may be futile.
    But none the less I have been limited to about 400 yards or maybe a little farther because of the size of my groups.
    I'm talking about several different 7 mags, 25-06, 270 win. Rifles that will shoot less than 1MOA @ 100 and even 200 yards. These rifles's groups have opened up to about 8" @ 400 yards.
    So I am desperate enough, I started a project with a Broughton #5, 1-11 twist with their canted lands rifling, hopefully the 8" groups will occur much farther out with .30 cal 180 grainers.
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The group was 7.3 inch's...Shot at the IBS Nats in Ohio
     
  13. jb1000br

    jb1000br Well-Known Member

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    The long one( [​IMG] )

    eddy K's 7" group was only at 1680yds, so it probably isnt really a record. Tim lamberts 10 incher was at 1760 wasnt it??

    JB
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    With all this..Mile thats almost a mile.A mile thats just a shade under a mile stuff.I't hard to keep track [​IMG]