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Why factory ammo still shoots pretty accurately after time and handloads seem to diminish accuracy over time

PapaSmurff

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Apr 16, 2021
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143
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Texarkana Tx
Was just wondering what the factories do differently when making factory loaded ammunition that seems to not be affected by the cold welding process when loading their ammo? It was recommended to me on here in another thread to use some dry lube inside my case mouths to help prevent the cold welding process to affect my accuracy of the loads if stored for an elongated period of time, but it seems that any rifle I have that shoots factory ammunition really well can still shoot the same ammo from the same box really well even if stored on the shelf for a few years. Why is that; what do the major ammo manufactors (Hornady, Weatherby, etc) do differently when loading their ammo for sale than we handloaders do that keeps their ammo shooting accurately for years? Do they dry lube the case mouths at the factory before seating the bullets in their ammo? Just curious and figured someone might have some insight on this?
 
Who says factory ammo doesn't cold weld? I would say it's no different then reloads IME pulling down factory ammo for brass.

If your loading at sane pressures I think it's pretty unlikely that you could actually get into a overpressure issue with cold welding. I'm sure it can happen but I have shot plenty of 20+ year old reloads and zero issues except for maybe bad ES.

The symptoms of cold welding usually show up over the chronograph and most factory ammo is pretty bad on ES so it would be a little hard to prove since the baseline of "fresh" factory ammo probably isn't going to be great anyway.

It's easy to prevent so there really isn't a reason to end up with it in the first place. Don't sonic clean brass, don't stainless media tumble it to death and strip all the carbon out of the necks and use a dry lube. If It's virgin brass use dry lube and seat longer then your actual seating depth and then just bump them to the correct seating depth when it's time to shoot if it's something your really worried about.
 
Was just wondering what the factories do differently when making factory loaded ammunition that seems to not be affected by the cold welding process when loading their ammo? It was recommended to me on here in another thread to use some dry lube inside my case mouths to help prevent the cold welding process to affect my accuracy of the loads if stored for an elongated period of time, but it seems that any rifle I have that shoots factory ammunition really well can still shoot the same ammo from the same box really well even if stored on the shelf for a few years. Why is that; what do the major ammo manufactors (Hornady, Weatherby, etc) do differently when loading their ammo for sale than we handloaders do that keeps their ammo shooting accurately for years? Do they dry lube the case mouths at the factory before seating the bullets in their ammo? Just curious and figured someone might have some insight on this?
I think that statement is not yet a proven or accepted fact.
 
It's just the experience I've had these last few years handloading vs the factory ammunition that I've shot. I am a handloader and take much pride in my work as such, it was just a topic that I wanted to bring up to see if anyone else has noticed they're handloads not being as accurate the following year after sitting up that long. And because my experience with quality factory ammunition doesn't seem to have that issue; it's possible I've just been lucky with my factory ammo retaining its accuracy through the years possibly I'm guessing. Most of my hand loaded rifles shoot 1/4" MOA or less but after they've sat on the shelf for a years time or more they don't seem to shoot quiet that accurately and like I said was just wondering if anyone had similar experiences with they're handloads and if they knew the reason or reasons behind that. Thanks for the responses.
 
I think I may have an explanation to what you are observing. I handload all of my rifle ammunition, so I cannot comment on how storage of factory ammo may affect its accuracy. I have noticed over the years that after my handloads have set idle on the shelf for a year or so that their accuracy seems to have dropped. I have determined what is causing this for me, however it may be something different for you.

Observation: I have spent a lot of time working with a specific rifle, scope, cartridge combination during the load development process and made numerous trips to the range dialing in the most accurate load possible and end up with a combination capable of shooting super tiny groups. I pack everything up and move onto the next rifle. A year or so passes and I get the bug again to pull that rifle and ammo out for some range time. But, when I sit down and begin shooting, immediately I notice that the groups aren't nearly as tight as they were when I packed things up the previous year. Sometimes the groups have gone from 1/4" to as much as 1/2". This shocked me the first time it happened. I have even had cases where the POI has shifted slightly. It can be very frustrating.

Findings: If I keep shooting, over the course of the day, my groups begin to tighten back up again, eventually getting back to what they were when I packed the rifle up the prior year.

I know you may not want to hear this, but in my case, the problem wasn't the ammo or the rifle. It was me.
 
I think I may have an explanation to what you are observing. I handload all of my rifle ammunition, so I cannot comment on how storage of factory ammo may affect its accuracy. I have noticed over the years that after my handloads have set idle on the shelf for a year or so that their accuracy seems to have dropped. I have determined what is causing this for me, however it may be something different for you.

Observation: I have spent a lot of time working with a specific rifle, scope, cartridge combination during the load development process and made numerous trips to the range dialing in the most accurate load possible and end up with a combination capable of shooting super tiny groups. I pack everything up and move onto the next rifle. A year or so passes and I get the bug again to pull that rifle and ammo out for some range time. But, when I sit down and begin shooting, immediately I notice that the groups aren't nearly as tight as they were when I packed things up the previous year. Sometimes the groups have gone from 1/4" to as much as 1/2". This shocked me the first time it happened. I have even had cases where the POI has shifted slightly. It can be very frustrating.

Findings: If I keep shooting, over the course of the day, my groups begin to tighten back up again, eventually getting back to what they were when I packed the rifle up the prior year.

I know you may not want to hear this, but in my case, the problem wasn't the ammo or the rifle. It was me.
That is a possibility for sure. However, I don't have that issue when using factory loaded ammo that's been stored for the same amount of time. Thanks for sharing your input and experience Bremmy; very well said.
 
I have some really old hand loads, that I had forgotten about for my old 225 Winchester, 1979 model, found them last year before deer season. Took em to the range to make sure the old girl was still Zero'd, I shot 3 of my new loads at 100 and 3 at 200 and she was where it needed to be, head shots at either distance would be no issue. I did the same thing with the vintage loads and they shot just as good as the new ones. I have some factory ammo that's older than the handloads mostly pistol but do have some 22 Hornet and 30-06 and they seem to shoot just fine the last time I used any of them.
The 225 is not one of my long-range cartridges, its for taking little White Tail and annoying hogs at my blind so I don't run the Crono, they may be crazy from an SD standpoint but 3 in a row at .5 MOA is all I need from them.
 
If there is a problem it probably is due to the fact that they are using virgin brass as opposed to hand loaded brass which is always dirty inside and inside of the neck unless it is stainless steel pin tumbled
No, it happened to me with new 338 Lapua brass! Cold weld will not happen on dirty brass. The cold weld process needs extremely clean dissimilar metals, and works especialy well with brass and copper.
 
If it is because of two dissimilar metals to me that sounds like a galvanic corrosion type scenario

This is a great explanation of what is happening.

What Is Cold Welding?
Category: Processes
Posted: November 11, 2020


While welding is often associated hot orange sparks and molten metal, there are several welding processes that do not fit this visual. One of the most notable of these welding processes is cold welding. It has been used at the industrial level for nearly a century and has several advantages that other welding processes do not possess.
What is Cold Welding?
Cold welding is a solid-state welding process that requires little or no heat to join two or more metals together. Instead, the energy used to join the materials together comes in the form of pressure. During the cold welding process, no metal is liquified or even heated to a notable degree.
How Does Cold Welding Work?
The reason behind why cold welding can bond two metals together without heat is because of the removal of the oxide layers on the surfaces of the materials being joined.
Almost all metals in normal conditions have some type of oxide layer on them, even though it may not be visible to the naked eye. These metal oxides form a barrier that prevents the metal atoms on the materials from being pressed together and bonding with one another. However, once the oxide layer is removed, the metal atoms are able to join with one another with enough pressure.
To remove the oxide layer, various mechanical and chemical methods are used. Wire brushing, degreasing, and other techniques are used to ensure that the metals surface is free from oxides. The metals must also be somewhat ductile. Industrial machinery is then used to create the substantial amount of pressure needed to create the metallurgical bonds.
What is Cold Welding Used For?
One of the most popular instances of cold welding is when joining dissimilar metals. This is because when dissimilar metals are melted together, they do not join well. This can result in the metals not joining together, or can lead to weak welds or welds with cracks. Cold welding avoids this problem as it relies solely on the atomic bonds formed through free electrons.
Typically, cold welding is used to create butt or lap joints. Industries include aerospace, automotive, advanced fabrication applications, and laboratory experiments often use cold welding. It is also often used for joining wires together.
What Metals Can Be Cold Welded?
Since ductile materials are typically required, metals that are commonly cold welded include:
Metals that contain carbon are not able to be joined using cold welding.
What are the Advantages and Disadvantages of Cold Welding?
One of the biggest advantages of cold welding is that there is no heat affected zone. This reduces the risk of negative chemical and mechanical changes to the base material during the welding process. Another key advantage is the ability to join dissimilar metals, as mentioned above. Also, if cold welding is performed correctly it creates a weld at least as strong as the weakest parent material.
The primary disadvantage of using cold welding is that the materials must be extremely clean and oxide free to create a satisfactory weld. This can be difficult to do, and it can also be expensive and hard to implement in a high-volume scenario. Since at least one of the metals must be ductile, cold welding is also limited by what alloys can be joined together
 
No, it happened to me with new 338 Lapua brass! Cold weld will not happen on dirty brass. The cold weld process needs extremely clean dissimilar metals, and works especialy well with brass and copper.
I don't believe brass and copper are dissimilar metals.
 
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