25WSM
Well-Known Member
I see alot of the new hybrids have completely closed tips now.
Shep
Shep
Why Berger?
- Thread starter Bill Norton
- Start date
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If you're inferring that these new hybrids are reliable expanding hunting bullets, my first question would be, are the closed tip hybrids being marketed as expanding hunting bullets?
The majority of Bergers seemed to open up. But the majority of Berger bullets also have open tips.
I received the first hand account of one Berger 7mm 168gr VLD that failed to expand in an elk. The elk and the bullet were both recovered. The bullet had tumbled end over end inside the elk. The guy that shot that elk exchanged detailed information with me via a number of personal messages. He inspected the tip of that bullet, which really wasn't damaged/deformed to any extent. He confirmed the tip of the bullet was pinched closed, solid copper. Take what you want from that.
I believe you'll be hard put to find anyone highly knowledgeable about lead core copper jacketed expanding bullet design and function, propose that closed copper jacket tips enhance reliable bullet expansion. If you're aware of any such information in print, particularly by any bullet manufacturer, please share it here. I'd be dumbfounded, but certainly interested in reading the rationale behind that argument.
Perhaps the multitude of folks opening their Berger bullet tips with tiny drill bits to help ensure their bullets expand on game should actually be pinching all those tips closed? I don't think so...
The majority of Bergers seemed to open up. But the majority of Berger bullets also have open tips.
I received the first hand account of one Berger 7mm 168gr VLD that failed to expand in an elk. The elk and the bullet were both recovered. The bullet had tumbled end over end inside the elk. The guy that shot that elk exchanged detailed information with me via a number of personal messages. He inspected the tip of that bullet, which really wasn't damaged/deformed to any extent. He confirmed the tip of the bullet was pinched closed, solid copper. Take what you want from that.
I believe you'll be hard put to find anyone highly knowledgeable about lead core copper jacketed expanding bullet design and function, propose that closed copper jacket tips enhance reliable bullet expansion. If you're aware of any such information in print, particularly by any bullet manufacturer, please share it here. I'd be dumbfounded, but certainly interested in reading the rationale behind that argument.
Perhaps the multitude of folks opening their Berger bullet tips with tiny drill bits to help ensure their bullets expand on game should actually be pinching all those tips closed? I don't think so...
25WSM
Well-Known Member
Didn't say they work just know that guys use hybrids from before but the new one probably need the tip cut back to work right. I wonder if all the hybrids are going to have closed tips soon. I have several customers using the 168 vld hunting 7mm and they love that bullet.
Shep
Shep
I think its pretty much understood across the board that the closed tiped(tip pointed) bergers and SMKs increase the chances of them not expanding. The first deer I ever shot with a berger- 168 origional vld penciled through and I saw the trace of the bullet on the upside incline behind the deer as the bullet went through the frost covered grass.
I use mostly ELDm bullets now but Im not afraid to use the bergers now that I know to watch for the tip being closed or clogged.
My own experience was more expanded than didn't, but the expanders were meat shredders.
The guy that killed the elk loved that bullet too, until he no longer did. He stopped using it.
You have experience with Bergers on large game?
The guy that killed the elk loved that bullet too, until he no longer did. He stopped using it.
You have experience with Bergers on large game?
I don't have experience with them on large game. Just deer sized game. I do understand your concern for tearing up meat though. My situation is a little different for me due to the fact that I usually have close borders that I can't cross to track an animal, so putting an animal down quick has become a larger priority. Between , accuracy, b.c., and the perfect balance of terminal performance... everything seems to be a trade off. I haven't saw the perfect bullet yet. Some bullets really shine in 2 of three of those categories but I don't see many that boasts perfection in all three departments. I'm sure there are a few that come close. Also, what one person believes to be perfect terminal performance, there's some one else who considers that same performance to be terrible terminal performance.
700Sendero
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2014
- Messages
- 53
I shoot 215s out of my 300 RUM, and have killed big midwest whitetails as close as 30 yards. Never had a problem with any of them.
Kodiak Special
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2017
- Messages
- 61
The Berger classic hunter 130s in 270 WSM are devastating on game. Absolute killer.
I use the 140s VLD in my 280 rem. And 168gr VLD in my 7mm mag . In my 204 ruger 35gr and 40gr Berger. Both works very well on coyotes for me. IN my 22 250AI 52gr Berger . In the 243 70gr Berger. If I could trade all of my other hunting bullets and use just Berger I would.
bachekermooni
Well-Known Member
Maybe this is why Berger ...
I proved it yet again today. This target was shot today in exact same conditions. Berger 140 EH .325 Group on left. Nosler ABLR 142 on right .556. Guess which one I went with.
Not that .556 is a bad group but .325 is better. I see this regularly. If I am trying to get a gun to shoot I try Berger's.
Not that .556 is a bad group but .325 is better. I see this regularly. If I am trying to get a gun to shoot I try Berger's.
1894C
Well-Known Member
It's pretty simple for me. I hate sorting bullets. Lot to lot Bergers are the most consistent. I've got a great load with some of the hornadys in one rifle, but I have to sort all of them and always wind up with 3 batches plus some that just get thrown away. I almost never lose any Bergers in this process.
