Whitetail POI...... What’s your intended Target?

[JMG61]

This is a great thread. Love reading everyones different techniques.

Being that I have done most of my whitetail hunting in western Pennsylvania where if your deer goes over the hill or around a corner someone else will anchor it and be standing over it when you get there, I have always tried for shots through the shoulders. Generally causes so much structural damage the they go straight down. I know there is meat loss with this, but I'm willing to accept that so as to not lose the whole thing to someone else. I have watched this happen to guys who have taken lung only shots, or they have made a poor shot, and we were tracking the deer only to hear another shot and find another hunter over it when we get there.

 

[Savage 12BVSS]

That's something I've never done. TBH I've never considered it, but given all the members who say it's super tasty, I'll put some thought into trying it. Ok done, thought about it and still don't want to try it lol.
Jk maybe I will one day

We feel about the same I see..........you did think about it a lot longer

 

[nicholasjohn]

This is a great thread. Love reading everyones different techniques.

Being that I have done most of my whitetail hunting in western Pennsylvania where if your deer goes over the hill or around a corner someone else will anchor it and be standing over it when you get there, I have always tried for shots through the shoulders. Generally causes so much structural damage the they go straight down. I know there is meat loss with this, but I'm willing to accept that so as to not lose the whole thing to someone else. I have watched this happen to guys who have taken lung only shots, or they have made a poor shot, and we were tracking the deer only to hear another shot and find another hunter over it when we get there.

I grew up hunting in Erie & Warren counties, so your story sounds very familiar to me. When I lived there, over one million licensed hunters roamed the woods in Pennsylvania. There were hunters everywhere. If you don't knock the deer right down, you may not get them at all. The meat you blow up in the shoulders is insignificant compared to losing the whole animal. Another situation where shooting for the shoulders is the better way to go is when you're in really rough country, and you don't want to pack one out of some miserably canyon full of rocks & blow-downs. That's usually where they're going to run when hit through the rib cage.

I prefer to shoot them right over the top of the heart, and as often as not they go right down when hit there. But they don't go down every time, and when they're pointed at the edge of a nasty hell-hole that I don't want to pack them out of, breaking some big bones is the better idea. I took a scolding from an old guy I was hunting elk with in Montana one day for shooting a nice fat cow right through the shoulders. I pointed to the miserable jungle the animal would have run down into and asked him how well he'd like to help me pack the carcass out of there. Instead, we dragged the whole carcass down the snow-covered grassy slope to the forest service road at the bottom, then pulled it whole up into the bed of the pick-up with a come-along. That beat the daylights out of blowing a whole hunting day lumping bloody quarters out of the bottom of that rough and ugly canyon.

 

[StumpGrinder]

This is a great thread. Love reading everyones different techniques.

Being that I have done most of my whitetail hunting in western Pennsylvania where if your deer goes over the hill or around a corner someone else will anchor it and be standing over it when you get there, I have always tried for shots through the shoulders. Generally causes so much structural damage the they go straight down. I know there is meat loss with this, but I'm willing to accept that so as to not lose the whole thing to someone else. I have watched this happen to guys who have taken lung only shots, or they have made a poor shot, and we were tracking the deer only to hear another shot and find another hunter over it when we get there.

Go west young man!!! I grew up in Southeast Kansas with permission to hunt THOUSANDS of acres for free!!! I often hunted all day without seeing another person. I never used a deer stand untill I moved to North Carolina. Deer hunting for me has always been about the meat, sport hunting was quail, pheasant, and small game.

 

[TrialbyFireFormed]

I agree and the head shots I take are 50 yards or less with 22 and 100 yards or less with rifle. At those distances I can put 5 shots in an inch or less. And I wait untill the deer have settled.

5 shots into an inch or less target shooting is a lot different than in a hunting scenario where you experience stress and body alarm reactions.
Maybe you are good enough to shoot those groups in either case, but I know many shooters aren't.

As for the thread topic,
I don't understand why anyone would go with a head shot every time.
The head on any mammal is always moving, especially deer bc they're constantly on the look out for predators and any living being.
Even a "settled" deer is always looking.
A deers head is on average 18" long back of skull to nose, and 7" wide.
Target zone is roughly 2.5" x 2.5" and is technically much smaller than that.
Small target size combined with constant movement equals a low percentage shot which in my book isn't worth taking unless you have no other choice and conditions are perfect.
Firstly, hunting deer size game with a .22LR is reckless.
Yes Rimfire is accurate, no recoil, and a lot quieter,
But it has no energy and little expansion from a very small projectile.
Do those who headshot deer with .22LR do so for bragging rights?
For me, I feel best telling and hearing a hunting story when there's sound reasoning and all decisions were made based on logic and with the targets best interest in mind.
Yes a head shot would be the best way to kill, but at what risk?
If I had to tell the story of the lost deer bc I went for a head shot with my .22LR but soon as I broke the shot the wind kicked up causing me to miss my intended poi blowing its jaw off and losing the animal only to find it days later as a pile of bones which the yotes has picked clean, it would devastate me. In fact the guilt would eat at me so much that I prob wouldn't want to tell that story.

Going back to .22lr ,
I'm not sure what grain or bullet design you're using but even if you used a high velocity .22LR with a 40grain bullet,
You're impacting an animal with roughly 90 foot pounds of energy at 50 yards?
And that's if you happen to place your shot perfectly and penetrate the skull.

Headshot at 50 with weapon that delivers enough energy, in an area where you can successfully put an effective round on target should the first shot not do the job, then sure, as long as u can guarantee you're not wounding and losing, go for it I guess.

Headshots at 100 and beyond with a rifle you didn't specify (I don't think)
I don't get the point of that either.
I don't understand why anyone would take a headshot at that distance.
I could do it, over and over, but I wouldn't. The risk isn't worth the reward and honestly seems unethical.

NOW,
If it's the end of the world and all you have is ur RF then fine, you have no choice,
But in a world where nearly any centerfire would be a better choice, I really don't understand why anyone would do it and why any state would legalize deer hunting with a .22LR.

Lastly and (sorry to everyone for the longggg reply)

Saying you have lost deer shot with much larger calibers and you've never lost one with a .22LR isn't sound reasoning nor does it justify using that caliber.

A lost deer is from poor shot placement and or the terminal performance of the projectile was lacking.
Either a bad shot
The wrong bullet
Or both.

 

[TrialbyFireFormed]

I don't know if it's "death" they fear or just humans period. I've seen and have shot a bunch at close and longer range and when they drop instantly the others just stand and look . Sometimes. Then others they may run just a little ways . But as soon as they see you coming to retrieve your prize they will run every single time. Not trying to start an argument but that's been my experience

You want to see something funny?
Shoot a Tom or Jake and watch the others run 10 yards and then come back and take turns stomping and pecking the one who just got shot lol.
Of course they'll run as fast as they can as soon as they spot you , some will even fly as far as they can.
All that said, the only animals that aren't scared of people are domesticated animals, and even most of them will be scared of ppl they don't know/haven't met.

When deer see or smell something weird/alien/alarming to them they stay away.
The smartest and oldest bucks learn to avoid ppl all together and travel at night and bed in the thickest stuff possible.

All animals have fight or flight instinct,
Deer are always flight, unless it's another deer.

 

[StumpGrinder]

5 shots into an inch or less target shooting is a lot different than in a hunting scenario where you experience stress and body alarm reactions.
Maybe you are good enough to shoot those groups in either case, but I know many shooters aren't.

As for the thread topic,
I don't understand why anyone would go with a head shot every time.
The head on any mammal is always moving, especially deer bc they're constantly on the look out for predators and any living being.
Even a "settled" deer is always looking.
A deers head is on average 18" long back of skull to nose, and 7" wide.
Target zone is roughly 2.5" x 2.5" and is technically much smaller than that.
Small target size combined with constant movement equals a low percentage shot which in my book isn't worth taking unless you have no other choice and conditions are perfect.
Firstly, hunting deer size game with a .22LR is reckless.
Yes Rimfire is accurate, no recoil, and a lot quieter,
But it has no energy and little expansion from a very small projectile.
Do those who headshot deer with .22LR do so for bragging rights?
For me, I feel best telling and hearing a hunting story when there's sound reasoning and all decisions were made based on logic and with the targets best interest in mind.
Yes a head shot would be the best way to kill, but at what risk?
If I had to tell the story of the lost deer bc I went for a head shot with my .22LR but soon as I broke the shot the wind kicked up causing me to miss my intended poi blowing its jaw off and losing the animal only to find it days later as a pile of bones which the yotes has picked clean, it would devastate me. In fact the guilt would eat at me so much that I prob wouldn't want to tell that story.

Going back to .22lr ,
I'm not sure what grain or bullet design you're using but even if you used a high velocity .22LR with a 40grain bullet,
You're impacting an animal with roughly 90 foot pounds of energy at 50 yards?
And that's if you happen to place your shot perfectly and penetrate the skull.

Headshot at 50 with weapon that delivers enough energy, in an area where you can successfully put an effective round on target should the first shot not do the job, then sure, as long as u can guarantee you're not wounding and losing, go for it I guess.

Headshots at 100 and beyond with a rifle you didn't specify (I don't think)
I don't get the point of that either.
I don't understand why anyone would take a headshot at that distance.
I could do it, over and over, but I wouldn't. The risk isn't worth the reward and honestly seems unethical.

NOW,
If it's the end of the world and all you have is ur RF then fine, you have no choice,
But in a world where nearly any centerfire would be a better choice, I really don't understand why anyone would do it and why any state would legalize deer hunting with a .22LR.

Lastly and (sorry to everyone for the longggg reply)

Saying you have lost deer shot with much larger calibers and you've never lost one with a .22LR isn't sound reasoning nor does it justify using that caliber.

A lost deer is from poor shot placement and or the terminal performance of the projectile was lacking.
Either a bad shot
The wrong bullet
Or both.

Wow, that was a loong response so I'll try to be short. I have averaged 4 to 6 deer per year for the past 30 years. That's a lot of deer, I think that qualifies that I know how to kill deer. Some of the places I hunt are very small with problem deer doing damage to gardens. It is only 1 acre and there are houses all around. Blasting away with a 300 wm or the like would cause undue concern with the neighbors. As would a wounded deer running through their yards. Therefore the 22lr with 50 yard or less head shots are the reasonable choice. As for the power of the 22lr and bullet choice, I use CCI Standard velocity which is subsonic in the above example. After North Carolina removed all caliber restrictions I watched many balistic gel video's showing a 22lr round point of 40 to 45 grains tumbles with in 2" to 4" of hitting the gel and penetration is 14 or more inches. The first deer I took with 22lr was 5 years ago facing me at 75 yards. I was in a tall stand, the bullet went through the heart and out the sternum. The deer walked 20 yards. The second deer was standing broadside at 40 yards, I put the bullet right through the ribcage both sides. I was carefull not to hit major boones. The fork horn walked 20 yards and laid down. Now our deer are smaller than the Kansas and Northern strain. They are the Virginia strain, and I purposely shoot smaller bucks and does. I hunt for meat not horns!!! The lunges looked like the had been hit with a hollow point. Watch the videos, when a bullet tumbles in tissue it is traumatic!!! Because the 22lr subsonic doesn't spook the deer they don't run off. Thu usually just walk around a little and then lay down. I have killed many since then and one of my hunting buddies is the head Wildlife Enforcement officer in my area. He has also taken deer with 22lr. As to loosing game the point was if I or anyone else looses game it is the hunters fault not that of the gun or caliber. Ask your Wildlife agency what the poachers in your are are using. I'll bet 22lr tops the list!!! Why??? Because they are quiet and effective!!! So much for keeping it short.

 

[West Calamus]

Yep a poachers tool. 22 LR and a spotlight. Any game warden will tell you that.

 

[Critter Picker]

With my bow I like double lung. Seems to put them down faster than heart in my humble opinion.

Rifle I like high shoulder. Break both shoulders and they are down in their tracks. If you hit a bit high ,spine or clean miss, low either double lung or clean miss. Would prefer clean miss to poor hit.

 

[Cb750]

With my bow I like double lung. Seems to put them down faster than heart in my humble opinion.

Rifle I like high shoulder. Break both shoulders and they are down in their tracks. If you hit a bit high ,spine or clean miss, low either double lung or clean miss. Would prefer clean miss to poor hit.

I am the same. However I have also done the head in shot below the neck. Dropped in its tracks, literally. That was with a slug.
This year I'm in such a drought that I'm forgetting what a whitetail looks like

 

[coop2564]

Always behind shoulder. Only rib damage, neck once in a while if conditions are near perfect and only shot possibly.

 

[JKB57]

Neck shot for me, hit high you hit the spine hit low you hit the juggler any neck shot they don't go anywhere and its a hit or miss no meat loss or guess work. Dead or missed. I have yet had to track or chase an animal that was neck shot.

 

[charliewhisky]

This is a great thread. Love reading everyones different techniques.

Being that I have done most of my whitetail hunting in western Pennsylvania where if your deer goes over the hill or around a corner someone else will anchor it and be standing over it when you get there, I have always tried for shots through the shoulders. Generally causes so much structural damage the they go straight down. I know there is meat loss with this, but I'm willing to accept that so as to not lose the whole thing to someone else. I have watched this happen to guys who have taken lung only shots, or they have made a poor shot, and we were tracking the deer only to hear another shot and find another hunter over it when we get there.

If someone else gets my deer, it isn't because I didn't try.
I hunt from the ground and almost never from a static location. As a result, I take the best shot that presents itself, when it presents. My goal is to eat venison.
For many years I only hunted with a bow and I hunted a lot. As a result I have taken many shots other than the preferred double lung. The ability to do this requires either a good knowledge of anatomy or a near certainty that you can track wounded game. As an example, I have shot a feeding doe with a bow from the rear, from the ground, with the intention of cutting the large artery inside the left leg with success. I have bow shot deer from the front quartering toward me with the only shot being low and between the chest and leg toward the rear hip. I once shot a doe facing me and crouching to leap when I was about ten feet away and put the arrow into the artery at the rear leg. I don't pretend to claim that all my kills have been clean but I have lost only four deer that I know of, a buck shot at contact range downward thru the chest where I could not find a blood trail, a good chest shot on a running buck where a thunderstorm hid the blood trail, a buck I tracked for two hours with a friend that we think was taken by other hunters, and a doe that I shot almost straight down thru the chest when she crawled into an old fence line and laid down a few feet away. Eventually, I found two of the bucks bones, the contact shot and the running shot later in the season. I have tracked many deer with success and I have learned that there are two occasions when you should not believe you can track an animal, When there is a good snowfall going on or when leaves are falling and hiding the trail.

Now I hut mostly with a 30-06 and the rule still applies. Take the shot. This year I have taken two does that both presented less than perfect shots. One doe was quartering toward me and knew I was there. She was just deciding which way to run in heavy cover. I shot her behind her right shoulder and the bullet exited her left buttock near he anus. There was no blood trail because she bled out internally within 50 yards. It took me about 30 minutes of quartering and looking for blood to find he. The other doe presented only her head and a half shoulder and I pinned her front shoulders. Two years ago I shot a large eight point with my second shot as he was charging uphill toward where I was sitting on the ground. I had missed a moving shot a moment before, probably a deflected round and he was just trying to get away from the noise. By the time I picked up a sight picture and fired, he was less than 15 feet away and he dropped 5 feet in front of me. Because he was "bounding uphill" my front chest sight picture resulted in a heart shot that entered his chest below his heart and angled upward toward his butt. He almost would have stepped on me.
Don't worry about losing the deer to another hunter. Take the shot and tell the story.

 

[Trapperuss]

Behind the shoulder for me