Brent, If I was to tell you what I think of the 7MM R/M mindset I would never be allowed to post on here ever again. okay let me refine that statement, If I was to tell you what I think of the 7mm R/M shooters mindset I have met while guiding I would never be allowed to post here ever again. when people believe that you must have a 7MM R/M to kill Elk and only the 7MM slugs can kill Elk; how do you counter that with logic? what I think about vitals shots should be aparent. I hate them and do not believe in them. I have done too much tracking of deer, Elk, Bear from vitals shots and more specifically 7MM R/M shooters. My 338 Win Mag has taken many (too many to count) Elk after a 7 MM slug hit them poorly or a vitals shot. this goes for my 270 Winchester as well. I am not raging against the cartridge, which I truly hate the 7MM R/M there is no secret about it. I truly hate the mentality of the 7MM R/M shooters. they are nearly a cult. they normally can't shoot over 150 yards without missing a 4'X4' target. they can't handle the recoil and flinch every shot and miss everything over 125 yards. then they have the arrogance to look at any one of my rifles and scoff at the calibers. the myriad of things said about 338 win mag (too old, too much recoil, and the alike), to my 270 win (too old, not enough power, only can bring down coyotes where I come from), to my 45-70 (too old, ancient, too slow, to big, too much recoil, too this, not enough of that). once I saw this old timer come to the ranch with a well seasoned 7MM R/M and I took only 3 seconds to volunteer to guide him. I asked how far he was comfortable, he locked eyes and said, "sunny, I can take Elk at 500 yards without a second thought." I smiled and took him to the range and told him the orange target is 540 yards. let one fly. the slug hit 1" low dead center. that told me the old man was good with his gun. I guided him to a 250 yard shot and he turned it down. the next one was somewhere about 130 yards, he liked the bull much better. it took him only a few seconds to make the bull fall. He severed the spine with a 139 grain SST. the one and only 7MM shooter than I got along with. he just looked at my 270 and smiled after our hunt he asked me how comfortable I was with my 270? I told him just about as comfortable as you with your 7MM. at the lodge we drank a little, and laughed at the other hunters walking in with miles of tracking on them. If you are going to hunt with something at least know how to use the gun and know your capabilities. No one cartridge, slug, or diameter is a panacea. I have seen guys shoot Elk with 257 Rob AI, 25-06, 257 Weatherby, 7X57, 30-06, 300 W/M, 264 W/M, 243 winchester, 32 W/S, 30-30, 6.5X57, 338 W/M, 284 W/M, 270 Weatherby, 270 Win, and some others. I have never in my life seen so many shooters as a group loose Elk and Deer due to arrogance that their guns would make up for their shortcomings as a shooter as with the 7MM R/M cult. I can not figure it out. nearly every 7MM R/M shooter I have ever guided has had me tracking blood for 1.5 miles or more. They lied about how good of a shot they were, were so arrogant they believed their gun would make up for range time, and they could kill an Elk with a shot that may or may not hit something that would immediately stop the animal. I value honesty, I value being up front about abilities, and I absolutely value people that take my advice in the field. if that makes me unlikable.. so be it.