Which of these two loads would you use?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Duff, Aug 17, 2004.

  1. Duff

    Duff Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    75
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2004
    I've been working with some 200gr. Accubonds in my .300 win mag and have narrowed it down to 2 loads and needs some imput from you all. (fwiw- the rifle is a M 70 with 26" factory barrel with answer brake, bedded in a Boyds JRS stock, Burris 4.5-14 FFII on top.)
    Anyway, I'm using Reloader 22 with these 200gr. AB's. I had great accuracy with H-4831sc, but velocity wasn't there. With 72gr. R-22 I'm getting 2880 fps (average of 3 shots) and 1/2 to 3/4 inch groups. With 74gr. of R-22 I'm getting right at 3000 fps and groups hovering right around the 1 to 1 1/4 inch mark. I'm pretty sure that this is a max load, judging by the manuels and the velocity I'm getting. No really pressure signs, but I haven't loaded the cases more then twice with this load (neck sizing).

    Which would you use if you were using this for deer/elk under 400 yards? If I were shooting chucks, I'd take the accuracy any day, but 120 fps is nothing to sneeze at either?

    [​IMG]
     
  2. mt rancher

    mt rancher Member

    Messages:
    14
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Just to echo what has already been said. My neighbor shot a 6 X 6 bull last fall with my Win M70 at 480 yds using the 200 gr accubond over 66 gr H4350. Velocity from my 24" factory tube was 2810. One shot, one dead elk. Velocity is great, but not needed to kill big elk. Just my 2 cents.
     
  3. Duff

    Duff Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    75
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2004
    I appreciate your advice, guys. My heart was telling me to go with the more accurate of the two loads, (but the speed sounds nice too) [​IMG]
    I'll load some up and get to practicing. thanks again-Duff
     
  4. shilen30

    shilen30 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    136
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2004
    2890 seamed to be the sweat spot for me. More powder than 71 grains of RL22 gave me pressure signs, but that is for a tight chambered barrel. I have never been able to go more than 73 grains RL22 for any lot for the 2 300WMs I have owned. I would stick to the 2880 FPS 72 grain load. You're asking a lot of your brass and rifle if you want more than this. I personally had better consistancy with H4831SC, and for my rifle, velocity was about the same for the accuracy loads with both H4831SC and RL22.
     
  5. QuietHunter

    QuietHunter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    273
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Run the ballistics. I think you will find that at 400 yards the extra confidence of a 1/2 - 3/4" load will be better than the 120 fps. The bottom line is that the elk will not know the difference withing 400 yards either way if you do your part. It is a good feeling to know where your bullet is going.
     
  6. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver Official LRH Sponsor

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    Duff,

    You have to realize that that initial valocity gain will decrease with every yard your bullet travels until at 400 yards it will basically be insignificant.

    Even at the muzzle, even though there is a Ft/Lbs difference, there is zero difference in the ability to harvest game up to elk and moose.

    Again, I try to stress to my customers that their rifles will loudly tell them what they like, they just need to listen.

    Load up the more accurate load and go out and test this load at the ranges you plan on calling your max, even perhaps 100 yards beyond what you will be shooting at game, say 500 yards.

    Get proficient doing this and when that big bull steps out of the aspens at 350 yards, it will be a cake walk.

    And the elk will certainly never feel the difference in the different loads, he will be dead just as well with the lighter load as the heavier one.

    Good Shooting!!

    50
     
  7. LB

    LB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    423
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Are you using matched cases, and is the extreme spread velocity a lot wider, R-22 versus 4831sc? Was the 4831 load compressed? What primer are you using, and have you tried different ones?

    Seems like your answer is somewhere in your question. If 72.0 grains is accurate, and 74.0 grains is unacceptable, there is a lot of wiggle room in between.

    I have a good supply of R-22 that I use exclusively in a 25'06AI, and the shot to shot variation (extreme spread) is a little more than with other powders. I have not used it in 30 caliber Magnums, as it is dedicated. But, in the limited experience I have, the powder produces velocities unapproachable with W760 or 4831H. Accuracy is acceptable, but certain other powders with slightly different bullet weights, are superb. For long range work, the substantially higher velocity is a little more important than fractional improvement in accuracy.

    In other words, it's a judgement call. Good luck with your choice, LB
     
  8. lead foot

    lead foot Active Member

    Messages:
    41
    Joined:
    May 25, 2004
    I'll echo what other folks are saying. That's enough velocity to give expansion at the range you want to shoot, so more isn't really needed.

    However, if you're stuck on gaining the velocity there are a couple things to try.

    First, if you have not done so, you might try H1000, IMR7828, and RL 19, or even a slower powder like Magnum or RL25.

    Second, you might want to try changing your overall length to see if a slightly greater or lesser length will suck 'em back in to center. Sometimes the results aren't what you'd guess them to be in advance, the only way to know for sure is to burn some powder.
     
  9. COBrad

    COBrad Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    965
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    It seems the % of improvement in accuracy is far greater than the relatively small improvement in either trajectory or ft lbs you're getting from the extra 120 fps. You have more than enough power to kill elk with your .300. Go for accuracy.
     
  10. SeniorSendero

    SeniorSendero Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    82
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    At 72 grains of R22, you still have a little room for more powder. I use a 73 grain charge of R22 for my accuracy/hunting load. I also moly my accubonds though.

    Like T.O.M. said, try a little slower powder to use that space up before you through in the towel and use R22. You can either try 75 grains of IMR7828 or ? grains of R25 etc.

    Ronnie
     
  11. Duff

    Duff Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    75
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2004
    Senior Sendero
    What velocity are you getting with your load (73gr R-22 and mollied 200 AB?) What is your barrel length? I tried 73 gr. and accuracy was so/so. I'm going to try 72.5gr of R-22 this weekend. That should put me right at 2900 fps +/-. (72gr gave me 2880 ave fps and 73gr gave me 2934 fps) If 72.5 does't do what I need, I'll stick with 2880 fps as it is accurate and probably fast enough (yeah, right-when are they fast enough [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  12. shilen30

    shilen30 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    136
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2004
    2880 is fast enough.
     
  13. SeniorSendero

    SeniorSendero Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    82
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    As of last weekend at 75F, with only 5 shots fired, 2984 ft/sec. Thats a Sendero in factory trim. BTW, there weren't any pressure signs with this load. My sweet spot is actually 72.5 grains with a .38" group, but I get an extra 50 ft/s and .5" group with 73.

    Ronnie
     
  14. LB

    LB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    423
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    The question of what is fast enough has bothered shooters forever. The recent factory offerings capitalize on the need for speed.

    What speed does, in one example, is improve the ballistics, thereby making it a little easier to hit your intended target. Some guns shoot better maxed to the hilt, some don't. Then it requires a better judge of distance, and knowing the exact drop of your bullet at all possible ranges. It's called doing your homework.

    But, there is no question, all things being equal that accuracy is only one component. You can still miss, with your accurate load, both high and low. The larger capacity cases address the problems in midpoint trajectory by narrowing it considerably, or marginally, depending on your point of view.

    However, in the original question, the gentleman states that his shooting would be at deer at ranges under 400 yards. The consensus seems to be that he has adequate means for this mission, without further development.

    If not, the possibility still exists, that he can select a different bullet, attain a higher BC or higher MV, and begin the process all over again. One thing I will venture to opine; you don't need a 200 grain bullet for what he wants to do with it. In fact, I would consider something in the 165/168 grain catagory, but that is argueable, and in the last analysis, a personal choice.

    Good hunting. LB

    edit: my mistake. He did write deer/
    elk at 400 yards. I still think he can drop down in weight, if velocity is more important to him, and still (cleanly) kill an elk.

    [ 08-20-2004: Message edited by: LB ]