David Emerson
Well-Known Member
Also there is nothing wrong with Hornady brass.Think of H&H. Go in like greasy sausages
Which Crtrdg- Short barrel do everything hunting rifle?
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David Emerson
Well-Known Member
Another thing about a 338. Wade in and dig them out close is the Woodleigh 300gr round nose. Shoot end to end and open well
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
Make big long holes and smash big bones
Ask Rich @elkaholic about the 375 Sherman shortmag
How has reloading for the 300 WSM been a pain? All WSMs are super easy to load. Watch that video I posted earlier and tell me that is hard.
Supply choices are Endless. Call Kevin at Black Hills. Last I checked they had over 1200(250 Count) bags of Winchester 325 WSM. Grafs is in full stock except for Nosler which we do not touch anyway. We can CNC perfect head stamped brass cheaper than Nosler 325. Bertram I am sure has a couple thousand. That is just the preferred one step die loading brass. We can 2 step 300 WSM in a machine. Or any of clients can with Redding dies. Bet we could find a couple semi's full of that. LOL.
David Emerson, we did once consider the RCM case. So close to running with that until I found an old 458 WSM reamer drawing. We made some tweaks and said let's do all the WSM. Love the RCM case just slightly lower powder capacity. In our notes I can see 2660 FPS with a Nosler Partition staying 5k psi below max pressure and loaded to the max COAL. We have never tested it specifically but can see your 2700. A 225 Accubond going 5k under max pressure should yield close to 2800 FPS with RL17 and your 25" barrel.
Hornady Brass, we have had nothing but problems with it.
Our Ammo is chrono'd using LabRadar and Magneto Speed. 1-4 FPS difference at times. Keep in mind we never go more than 5k psi below max. 60,000 PSI. Keeps our insurance rates manageable
Powders won't be used unless 98% or more is burned.We use stock box mags and a few different followers or AccurateMag DBMs. Always feed great on bolt guns. Semi Auto, Larue, Knights, and ACS Mags.
If we load for the TXH-F10 we set the machines(Not compressed loads) for a COAL of 2.840 and 2.900 for bolt guns" That is best for magazine feeding. 225gr Accubond or Maker TREX
2.840" - RL17
18" - 2625 FPS
20" - 2685 FPS
2.900" - RL17
18" - 2660 FPS
20" - 2710 FPS
Our favorite load is the 230gr ELDX. COAL 2.915. Bolt Gun only. Custom which we have a tech or even myself do a compressed load
18" - 2650 FPS
20" - 2725 FPS
24" - 2830 FPS
250gr WoodLeigh Power Points or Nosler Partition, Bolt Gun, 20" Barrel, 2600 FPS
Now looking at the 338 SS. On their website, they say can push a 250gr Berger EOL at 2800 FPS. No mention of barrel length. <EDIT, they use a 26". Their COAL is super long. 2.970! Even if we went to 2.930, my basic calculations with the same powder charge yields shows us being 100 FPS shy. All of their COAL are super long. It could be all true and the 338 SS can slightly outperform our WSM.
Both the SS and our WSM could technically be talking out of the other sides of our mouths. By most books, a short action shouldn't be more than 2.9 COAL.
We focus and build short barreled guns all the time to accommodate a suppressor. Overall lengths are 42-45". Same as a 24" common barreled rifle.
I obviously think our stuff is awesome but respect the insanely hard work of Sherman. We are smaller and newer. We work very hard to be the best. I am sure their are more campers in the Sherman tent. Am I going to try and sway them to sell their's and buy ours. Never. For those looking for something new, do your reading, make the choice that you think is best.
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
How has reloading for the 300 WSM been a pain? All WSMs are super easy to load. Watch that video I posted earlier and tell me that is hard.
Supply choices are Endless. Call Kevin at Black Hills. Last I checked they had over 1200(250 Count) bags of Winchester 325 WSM. Grafs is in full stock except for Nosler which we do not touch anyway. We can CNC perfect head stamped brass cheaper than Nosler 325. Bertram I am sure has a couple thousand. That is just the preferred one step die loading brass. We can 2 step 300 WSM in a machine. Or any of clients can with Redding dies. Bet we could find a couple semi's full of that. LOL.
David Emerson, we did once consider the RCM case. So close to running with that until I found an old 458 WSM reamer drawing. We made some tweaks and said let's do all the WSM. Love the RCM case just slightly lower powder capacity. In our notes I can see 2660 FPS with a Nosler Partition staying 5k psi below max pressure and loaded to the max COAL. We have never tested it specifically but can see your 2700. A 225 Accubond going 5k under max pressure should yield close to 2800 FPS with RL17 and your 25" barrel.
Hornady Brass, we have had nothing but problems with it.
Our Ammo is chrono'd using LabRadar and Magneto Speed. 1-4 FPS difference at times. Keep in mind we never go more than 5k psi below max. 60,000 PSI. Keeps our insurance rates manageable
We use stock box mags and a few different followers or AccurateMag DBMs. Always feed great on bolt guns. Semi Auto, Larue, Knights, and ACS Mags.
If we load for the TXH-F10 we set the machines(Not compressed loads) for a COAL of 2.840 and 2.900 for bolt guns" That is best for magazine feeding. 225gr Accubond or Maker TREX
2.840" - RL17
18" - 2625 FPS
20" - 2685 FPS
2.900" - RL17
18" - 2660 FPS
20" - 2710 FPS
Our favorite load is the 230gr ELDX. COAL 2.915. Bolt Gun only. Custom which we have a tech or even myself do a compressed load
18" - 2650 FPS
20" - 2725 FPS
24" - 2830 FPS
250gr WoodLeigh Power Points or Nosler Partition, Bolt Gun, 20" Barrel, 2600 FPS
Now looking at the 338 SS. On their website, they say can push a 250gr Berger EOL at 2800 FPS. No mention of barrel length. <EDIT, they use a 26". Their COAL is super long. 2.970! Even if we went to 2.930, my basic calculations with the same powder charge yields shows us being 100 FPS shy. All of their COAL are super long. It could be all true and the 338 SS can slightly outperform our WSM.
Both the SS and our WSM could technically be talking out of the other sides of our mouths. By most books, a short action shouldn't be more than 2.9 COAL.
We focus and build short barreled guns all the time to accommodate a suppressor. Overall lengths are 42-45". Same as a 24" common barreled rifle.
I obviously think our stuff is awesome but respect the insanely hard work of Sherman. We are smaller and newer. We work very hard to be the best. I am sure their are more campers in the Sherman tent. Am I going to try and sway them to sell their's and buy ours. Never. For those looking for something new, do your reading, make the choice that you think is best.
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
That was a good read. I might show my ignorance here but can you tell me your problems with Hornady brass? You obviously have good equipment to test and show results. Nonetheless I do like the Hornady compact mags. Maybe talk ADG into making them. It amazes me you get those velocities with the shorter barrels. But the eldx? I have not had good experiences with the long range bullets. Shoot well but just not stout enough. If I had the money and time I would design like an accubond but beefier base and soft lead so it did not shed so much weight. And use a brass tip like the hammers or the old Remington bronze points. In the end thank you for your response.
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
One more thing. I will not mention crazy claims for speed but in the end volume is volume. Pressure is pressure. Throating is throating. This is not aimed at you but at others I have read about insane claims of speed. An 06 based 6.5 case claiming 3300 with a 140. As the minnesotans say. Ya you betcha
Either a 30 inch barrel or insane pressure.
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
The reason I like the compact mag over the wsm is it does not have a rebated rim. Yes you can make wsm feed but the ruger case is easier. The very worst noise in the woods? CLICK. Oh oh. Yes it does have a smaller volume but not significant.
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
Same as the norma mags. I do not like the 20 degree shoulder but they were designed for machine guns. Feed
One more thing. I will not mention crazy claims for speed but in the end volume is volume. Pressure is pressure. Throating is throating. This is not aimed at you but at others I have read about insane claims of speed. An 06 based 6.5 case claiming 3300 with a 140. As the minnesotans say. Ya you betcha
David Emerson,
Glad to share the knowledge and make the shooting world a more friendly place. We are a self funded operation and to approach an insurance company as a first timer isn't easy with **** they haven't ever seen. Measuring pressure accurately is key and you are right: pressure is pressure, throating is throating. Others have magic. Keep searching Amazon for it but always come up empty
Hornady brass. Early on we bought 1500 pieces or so and it didn't neck up or down consistently. We simply loaded 300 WSM with 200gr ELDX anywhere from 55k to 61k psi. Bolt swipe, horrible accuracy, primers falling out all the time. We were running low .100 freebores and increased but still had the same issues. Their brass even to the naked eyes seems very slim and softer. Really wanted that stuff to work to. I wasn't happy. Not that I think Hornady is bad, because I wanted their stuff to work. Love a lot of their products.
Long range bullets. We really don't like them either because of having to load so short for the Semi Autos. I and my team are in the boat of not liking Bergers and SGK to name a few. I know I can get borderline get crucified about Bergers from their camp but we just don't like what we have seen for performance on animals and they are just too long.
We want straight penetration, uniform expansion, and pass through. Make that blood trail visible. On our site you can see a lot of various types of bullets we use. It's a lot of Nosler, Woodleigh, Maker. The ELDX is a solid best of both worlds for long range and on game performance. We use bullets that are appropriate for the caliber and game/target. Not using a VMAX on Black Bear. O man I have jokes tonight...
For insane speed claims. I am new on here and have seen some insanity. We are real world. We have engineering backgrounds. Few of us even built race car engines 15 years ago. To that point, so many people get wrapped up in speed. We do to a point but does an animal know the difference between 100-200 FPS. No. Our surrounding principles of loading, education, availability are what gives us a complete foundation to move on in any conversation. As I mentioned earlier, apparently the 338 SS is faster than I can make ours. Will always admit defeat.
One test we did to push the limits, super long throat, 6.5 WSM, RL26, not sure of the charge, higher than 72grs and probably RL26, 140 ELDM, 24" barrel and we got 3175 and that is approaching max pressure. Can't do that consistently at all. So that 06 6.5 doing 3300, totally believable! NOT! HAHA.
RCM, totally respect it. I am gonna have to include special footage of our chambering and racking of the bolt when I film our XBA-700 segment on YouTube. You make a good point on the sloppy chambering. I have seen some off the shelf remingtons and savages that sound and chamber horribly. All of ours are great even when we using a stock box, but we usually change out the spring and follower with other off the shelf companies products. DBM is a million times smoother. And I will agree the RCM has always fed very well.
Which model do you have? The few I have touched, think it was the guide gun series, those were sweet! Lastly I think the care when installing and smoothing the bolt is key to some of these off the shelf guns. We make sure ours are smooth even on the base Rem 700 actions.
Thanks for making solid and valid points.
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
Brothers in arms. Nosler partitions, woodleighs. I really do not care for the swifts as the base is just soft lead. I knew Lee Ried personally. I stopped at swift many times. I told lee to use hard cast lead in the base but he never did. Hit something hard and the base expands forward to hit the mushroom and you have a flat frisbee. Not. Lee got into financial straights and brought in an east coast investor and got shoved out. And I do not care for the monos. Yes they expand but they are still a solid. I have a good stock of the old bitterroots, Jack Carter trophy bondeds which are wonderful. After federal bought him out they changed to gilding metal and the wings snap off. So now a days Give me a nosler P or a Woodleigh. I grew up reading JOC and Bob Hagel. What held true then holds true now. I also have a good supply of the old lathe turned noslers which are tougher than the new ones. Chuckled about your savage. I tell everybody a savage is like a fat ugly woman. Might make you feel warm as long as no one sees you!! Hahaha. Give me a mauser, pre 64, springfield or a P17 massaged like I do them I use a lot of the DuMoulin mausers that sarco sells. Nice stuff.
Hahaha. Give me a mauser, pre 64, springfield or a P17 massaged like I do them I use a lot of the DuMoulin mausers that sarco sells. Nice stuff.
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
To the rcm. It is a wood stocked 77 that was originally a 7 saum. Not so much so I got a Mcgown barrel and chambered to the 338rcm. A shorter 338 win in performance. One thing I did do is the P17 is great for the big cartridges. I took the 416 rigby and left the shoulder where it was. Blown out and a 30 degree shoulder and necked to 338. Whooo. With a 27 inch hart I am going 3300 with 124 grains of R33. I used a 340 weatherby throat. I had to use Norma brass. It is tougher than the Hornady 416 rigby brass. The Hornady would collapse at the shoulder when necking down. even to 40 first. The big norma cases are made in the same plant as the 50 bmg and are pretty hard and tough. Most norma,nosler brass is pretty soft.
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
The big 338 speed was with a 250 sierra. It would splat but accurate for shooting rocks
