Which cartridge for lrh for 1000yd.

shortpants

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
619
Jeff,
We were typing at the same time there but both saying the same thing. At least, that's what I was trying to say.

To the OP,
When you posted this it sounded like exactly what I've been planning for a year now. I've asked the same questions and came up with what I posted. I am just a bigger fan of the WSM and don't feel I'm giving up anything to the WIN only because I'm going to build off a Stiller LA.
 

WildRose

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
12,675
Location
N. Texas and S. Africa
I was wanting more barrel life thats why considering 30 or 338
as i do shoot a lot. Even considered a straight 284winny for
practice . Mostly interested in 300 ,but have entertained the 7stw
but most guys in this area have had some accuracy issues.
The 6.5's will all give you very good barrel life as long as you aren't shooting maximim weight bullets and maximum loads and shooting it enough to really heat it up a lot.

If "the guys around here" were having accuracy issues with the STW it's not because it's an STW, it's their own issues, ammo/weapon issues.

Mine will still shoot MOA at 800yds all day long and it has nearly 2000 rounds through it.
 

backwoods83

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
2,553
From what was listed, 300win mag, btw Kevin Thomas of Lapua will verify that norma made the lots of 300wm brass for them that is no longer available, but the norma headstamp is. Also I'm biased I'm a big wby fan, I think the 300wby is the best of both worlds when comparing the win mag to the ultra, it is barely behind the ultra with handloads and factory loads are practically twins, and the barrel life is not much less than the win mag, a couple hundred rounds. Also the 300wm wsm, and wby are probably the easiest rounds to get single digit ES, SD numbers, and they are all cake to load for.
 

angus-5024

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
1,148
The less powder you put through a hole, the easier it is to get a good load for. Thats where the term "inherently accurate" comes from. Thats why the .308, .223, 7-08 yada yada, are taked up so much as accurate rounds. The truth of the matter is that the rifle and ammo quality dictates an accurate rifle, not the caliber. That being said, less powder to bore ratio makes it easier to load for.

So of what you listed the .300 WIN and .338 RUM are going to be the easiest to load for, then the 300 RUM and 7 STW. That being said, when you find a good load for either the 300 RUM or 7 STW they are alot easier to shoot in the wind than the 300 Win. The .338 Takes the cake in every department for prerformance (less vertical, but whats a few clicks?), but costs alot more and recoils alot more.

-So If you want to shoot it alot, I would go 300 Win or WSM. simply cheaper with really good performance, though I would leave elk out of the equation after about 800 yards.
-Not gonna shoot it alot 7 STW or 300 RUM, performance
step-up.
-limit yourself to 700 yards and I would go for a 7 WSM, Rem mag or .284.
-you really want the best for 1k elk, .338 RUM, Lapua, Norma or EDGE.

All that said, Im a big overkill kinda guy (dead can only get deader), so figure out the terminal preformance for yourself for your own limitations.

As far as the .338 LAPUA not being practical, I agree with BROZ and shortpants. The Lapua brass is so good it makes it the most economical out there. I get 4-6 firings on my .338 RUM @ 2750. Push a Lapua at that speed and youll get at least 15-18 firings.

The action issue is a non- issue in my thinking. You want a BIG-BOY gun, drop the extra couple hundred and get a BIG-BOY action. Nothing wrong with the MARK IV actions, especially with the ole' 58* bolt throw.
 

Greyfox

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
5,921
Location
Northeast
Plan to hunt elk, mule deer, antelope; and practice my skills at longer ranges so i wanted a magnum ,but barrel life sucks on 6.5x284 and i have lots of mid and short actions. I don't OWN any
big medicine. I have shot the 338 lapua and love it, but not practical

I can assure you that comparable shooting conditions you will not see much difference in barrel life between the 6.5x284 and any of the 30 or 7mm magnums you are considering. I'm not saying that it is the best choice of caliber for your application(elk), but if barrel life is the only thing holding you back, you might want to reconsider.
 

Jordan Smith

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2012
Messages
214
Location
Calgary, AB
OP,

My opinion is that you should choose whichever cartridge suits your fancy, since they'll all get it done at 1000 yards as long as an appropriate bullet impacts the ribs at ~2000fps!

It sounds to me like your preference is to lean towards the practical, cost-effective side of things, and that being the case, I'd probably go with a 7mm of some sort. Of the calibers you mentioned, it's the biggest bang for your buck as a sub-1000 yard hunting cartridge. You'll spend less on loading ammo, practice more, and endure less recoil and muzzle blast.

Figure out the maximum range you'll shoot game, decide which bullet you want to shoot, calculate the necessary muzzle velocity that will get you an impact velocity of around 1900-2000fps at that max range, select a clambering and barrel length that will get you there.
 

angus-5024

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
1,148
OP,

My opinion is that you should choose whichever cartridge suits your fancy, since they'll all get it done at 1000 yards as long as an appropriate bullet impacts the ribs at ~2000fps!

So JBM gives me 1928 fps with 1495ft/lbs energy at 1k with a 1.28 second TOF @ 3000 ft. Thats using a 180 VLD hunting, assuming a 3100 fps muzzle velocity (which Im guessing is high).

That would get it done barely in optimum conditions if you dont hit bone. Notice the 1.28 sec TOF in there. alot can happen in 1 1/4 sec. Margin for error is a good thing.

Just sayin.
 

Jordan Smith

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2012
Messages
214
Location
Calgary, AB
So JBM gives me 1928 fps with 1495ft/lbs energy at 1k with a 1.28 second TOF @ 3000 ft. Thats using a 180 VLD hunting, assuming a 3100 fps muzzle velocity (which Im guessing is high).

That would get it done barely in optimum conditions if you dont hit bone. Notice the 1.28 sec TOF in there. alot can happen in 1 1/4 sec. Margin for error is a good thing.

Just sayin.

Notice I wrote "~2000fps" ;)

1928fps will still open up a VLD just fine. I'm not a big proponent of using ft-lbs of energy figures to compare the killing power of different bullets, but the old standby for elk has always been 1500 ft-lbs, which your example has at 1000 yards. What's not to like? The bullet has enough velocity to expand well, enough energy to satisfy the old school thinkers that still use energy to gauge a bullet's effectiveness, and gets there quick enough to be effective. And as the bullet approaches its minimum expansion velocity, hitting bone will only make it expand better and perform more effectively ;)

The 180gr Hybrid and 195gr EOL will only increase the effectiveness of the 7mm at extended range.

TOF is not going to be a lot different, regardless of the load you're using. I just ran the numbers through JBM on the 300gr OTM at 2800fps, and it's 1.30 seconds to get to 1000 yards, too. If you start that bullet off at 3100fps, it still takes 1.16 seconds to get to 1000. And that's at nearly 4000 feet elevation. It would take longer at the 3000 feet that you used for the 7mm.
 

Bear 9362

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
82
Location
New Zealand
Why not try something different like the newer 300 Norma Mag with 208 A-max's. You might find this to be exactly what your looking for and you can aways try the 230 Berger hybrids if you are wanting a better B.C.
 

quickone

Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2011
Messages
7
Location
jasper, texas
So JBM gives me 1928 fps with 1495ft/lbs energy at 1k with a 1.28 second TOF @ 3000 ft. Thats using a 180 VLD hunting, assuming a 3100 fps muzzle velocity (which Im guessing is high).

That would get it done barely in optimum conditions if you dont hit bone. Notice the 1.28 sec TOF in there. alot can happen in 1 1/4 sec. Margin for error is a good thing.

Just sayin.

Notice I wrote "~2000fps" ;)

1928fps will still open up a VLD just fine. I'm not a big proponent of using ft-lbs of energy figures to compare the killing power of different bullets, but the old standby for elk has always been 1500 ft-lbs, which your example has at 1000 yards. What's not to like? The bullet has enough velocity to expand well, enough energy to satisfy the old school thinkers that still use energy to gauge a bullet's effectiveness, and gets there quick enough to be effective. And as the bullet approaches its minimum expansion velocity, hitting bone will only make it expand better and perform more effectively ;)

The 180gr Hybrid and 195gr EOL will only increase the effectiveness of the 7mm at extended range.

TOF is not going to be a lot different, regardless of the load you're using. I just ran the numbers through JBM on the 300gr OTM at 2800fps, and it's 1.30 seconds to get to 1000 yards, too. If you start that bullet off at 3100fps, it still takes 1.16 seconds to get to 1000. And that's at nearly 4000 feet elevation. It would take longer at the 3000 feet that you used for the 7mm.

now we are getting to what i really need to know, spent so much time researching components, if someone has allready ran these numbers for me
i could of settled on caliber by now. if you go with 195eol due you need more
twist than 9; still leaning toward 300winmag for this build.
 

WildRose

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
12,675
Location
N. Texas and S. Africa
now we are getting to what i really need to know, spent so much time researching components, if someone has allready ran these numbers for me
i could of settled on caliber by now. if you go with 195eol due you need more
twist than 9; still leaning toward 300winmag for this build.
No a 9 twist will/should stablize any 30cal as long as your mv is greater than 2400fps.

The slower the bullet, the more twist needed to get to a desired RPM. The faster it is, the less you will need. RPM is a function of both twist rate and velocity.
 

Jordan Smith

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2012
Messages
214
Location
Calgary, AB
now we are getting to what i really need to know, spent so much time researching components, if someone has allready ran these numbers for me
i could of settled on caliber by now. if you go with 195eol due you need more
twist than 9; still leaning toward 300winmag for this build.

Berger was recommending an 8.5" twist for the 195gr EOL.
 

WildRose

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
12,675
Location
N. Texas and S. Africa
Berger was recommending an 8.5" twist for the 195gr EOL.
Do you have a link to that?

The fastest twist recommendation they show on the hunting bullets is 1:11.

Hunting_Bullets

That even includes the 210Hvld.

Even on their target bullets the fastest recommended twist is 1:10 and that's for the 230's.

Target_Bullets

EDTA: Never minde I backed up and figured out you are talking about the 7mm.
 
Top