# Where does Rifle cant begin to matter?

#### jevyod

##### Member
I have been watching YouTube videos on long range shooting. Primarily Barbour Creek shooting school. They did an episode where they illustrated how much a 10-15 degree cant can affect impact at 1,000 yards. What I am wondering is how much will it affect 500 yards, 400 etc? Is this a linear thing where 500 would be off half as much as 1,000? Main reason for asking is if I do not shoot beyond 600 yards, is a scope level absolutely necessary?

#### Bigeclipse

##### Well-Known Member
tagging in for interest as well.

#### 338 dude

##### Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
I have been watching YouTube videos on long range shooting. Primarily Barbour Creek shooting school. They did an episode where they illustrated how much a 10-15 degree cant can affect impact at 1,000 yards. What I am wondering is how much will it affect 500 yards, 400 etc? Is this a linear thing where 500 would be off half as much as 1,000? Main reason for asking is if I do not shoot beyond 600 yards, is a scope level absolutely necessary?
Well I don’t know exactly how much it will affect at different distances I would say this a 10 to 15° can’t is extremely noticeable if you have any sense of level 2 to 3° might get by your eye and at 400 or 500 yards I don’t think the difference would be very much

#### HARPERC

##### Well-Known Member
Yes its enough difference to cause problems, and add to problems. I've seen plenty of misses on deer sized targets, as well as poor hits due to cant.

Is a level necessary? Not if you can keep it square without one.

#### ShtrRdy

##### Well-Known Member
I've tried to get a better understanding of this in the past as well. It seems to me that the problem comes into play because the bullet has to fly through an arc to get to the target due to gravity. A 1000 yard shot is going to have more arc than a 500 yard shot. The bullet 'drop' between these two distances is not linear. i.e. there is more than twice the drop at 500 to get you on at 1000. Therefore any cant will cause more impact error at 1000 than at 500. You might be able to take a ratio of the two drops to get an idea of how much worse cant is at 1000 with respect go 500 or some other distance.

#### jevyod

##### Member
I am not really worried about keeping the rifle relatively straight off the bench, but I am not sure about hunting scenarios. Especially when I read what Harperc says. Are there hunting scenarios where it is difficult to know if your rifle is canted or not? I mean I would think you have enough surroundings (the ground, horizon, etc) that allows someone with relatively good spatial sense to not have too many problems. But maybe there are more situations that I am not thinking about. With what Harperc and others have written, seems like it may be a somewhat common problem. That makes me think I may be over-simplifying this thing....

#### Tiny Tim

##### Well-Known Member
I am not really worried about keeping the rifle relatively straight off the bench, but I am not sure about hunting scenarios. Especially when I read what Harperc says. Are there hunting scenarios where it is difficult to know if your rifle is canted or not? I mean I would think you have enough surroundings (the ground, horizon, etc) that allows someone with relatively good spatial sense to not have too many problems. But maybe there are more situations that I am not thinking about. With what Harperc and others have written, seems like it may be a somewhat common problem. That makes me think I may be over-simplifying this thing....

If your a flatlander, those references may work well, but if you then go into mountainous terrain, a solid vertical or horizontal reference may be difficult to obtain (perhaps trees?). Agree with 338 dude, 10-15 degrees is extreme. I would assume most people could eyeball 3-5 fairly consistently. I should think some relatively basic geometry should be able to get you close to the error at that range. Too bad I suck at basic geometry.

#### Mram10us

##### Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
A scope level is worth the \$5-\$100 you pay for one. Even the cheap Chinese eBay levels will make you consistent. Try with and without and see what you like

#### ButterBean

##### Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Yes its enough difference to cause problems, and add to problems. I've seen plenty of misses on deer sized targets, as well as poor hits due to cant.

Is a level necessary? Not if you can keep it square without one.
I agree with this 100%, At 100-200 yards it will barley be noticeable but from 300 on any cant in either direction the shot will go low in the direction of the cant, Mram10us said it best if you have any doubt any level will keep you somewhat consistent

#### jimbires

##### Well-Known Member
I see you're a central Pa guy . I'm in Philipsburg . if you want to get together and shoot some time , let me know . I belong to a 500 meter range . I've also got with some guys that have one set up from 800 - 1600 yards , with places to shoot 2050 , 2375

I go to a 500 meter range that has wooden target stands , they lean one way or another . I staple up a paper target that is also tilted one way or another . the ground is reasonable flat . without using my level , I catch myself trying to align my reticle with either the paper target , or the wooden target stand . for long shots , a level is a must .

#### jimbires

##### Well-Known Member
here is an article on cant .

#### browndcm

##### Well-Known Member
Yes its enough difference to cause problems, and add to problems. I've seen plenty of misses on deer sized targets, as well as poor hits due to cant.

Is a level necessary? Not if you can keep it square without one.
Never used one, never had a problem
Guess i am lucky my form is ok
And i am 74 years old now
Maybe it was my military and gun club shooting when i was young lol

#### waveslayer

##### Well-Known Member
Cant is easily solved by a anti cant level.
Here's another good article on it.

.

#### misterc01

##### Well-Known Member
I know it makes a difference to my hits on target at 600 yards. Once I added an anti-cant level to my scope tube, the low right started going more towards where they needed to go.

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