What's the best Caliber?

Kabang

New Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Messages
4
Location
Seattle
Allot of questions are asked regarding best caliber for various kinds of game, and I'm trying to evaluate this from a quantitative perspective. I'm committed to the Humane Kill, so that puts bullet energy and accuracy at the top of the priority list.

I have found Berger Bullets to be very accurate in my match shooting and they have been recommended for hunting so I emailed Brian Litz of Berger Bullets to see what he thought and he responded with this;

There are a lot of variables involved in terminal ballistic performance, sothere are very few hard and fast rules that apply. A few rules of thumb are: you need at least 1000 ft-lb of kinetic energy to kill deer sized game, and Berger VLD's typically require an impact velocity of at least 1800 fps to fully and properly expand. What you want to do is find the bullet that gets the farthest downrange while satisfying both the velocity and kinetic energy requirements.

For example:
A 105 grain 6mm bullet needs to be going 2072 fps to hit with 1000 ft-lb.
A 168 grain 7mm bullet needs to be going 1638 fps to hit with 1000 ft-lb.
A 190 grain .30 cal bullet needs to be going 1540 fps to hit with 1000ft-lb.

These are just 3 arbitrary examples, you'll have to run the trajectories for the bullets and calibers you're considering, but that's how to do the analysis. Hope this helps,

-Bryan

After reading Brians Advice, I went to Quickload and Quicktarget to see what might work. I found that the 6.5/47 Lapua cartridge loaded with the Berger 130g VLD had a max range of 750ish yards and still maintain the 1000lb bullet energy and min. 1800 FPS. The 6mmXC cartridge provided slightly less range using the Berger 115g VLD.

Considering the prime directive of Accuracy & Terminal Energy/Velocity being paramont, has anyone else worked with this approach.

Thanks
Mark
 
Last edited:
Considering the prime directive of Accuracy & Terminal Energy/Velocity being paramont, has anyone else worked with this approach.

Yes, and the large 338's with 300 grain SMK's always won.:D

Plenty of energy and more importantly less wind drift than any other @ 1K, though it may not be what you are looking for.
 
Kabang, hello and welcome.

First off, let's take the term "humane" out of the discussion. I dont see anything humane about hunting and killing animals. Humane applies to humans and not animals. Don' take that as a slam... That's my philosophy and the philosophy of a lot of others. You can apply etheics and morals to hunting, but here again you will find some disagreement. My guess is that you want to kill your game quickly.

Trauma that shuts down life functions is what kills. The more catastrophic damage you do to vital organs and tissue, the quicker they will die. So usually, the bigger the bullet you use the more damage you will do depending on the design and construction of the bullet.

There has been a lot of debate on the effect of "energy", i.e., KE in killing game. KE effect can probably best be described as shock effect and I think there is little evidense of "shock" killing large game animals. That could be debated with explosive highly frangible bullets *grenading* in vital areas, but here again, much of the damage might be attributed to shrapnel. For the most part, penetration and wound channels through vital areas is what kills game, especially larger game. Momentum is what drives penetration, KE really has nothing to do with it.

If you shot a large animal in the shoulder with a 130 gr 6.5 mm bullet @ 3500 fps generating 3597 ftlbs of of KE and the bullet exploded without penetrating to vitals, it would not die very quick. The energy is expended immediately and the 3597 ftlbs does not kill the animal. Take that same size bullet of different construction, that maintains it's mass, expands in a controlled manner, and it will penetrate and likely pass through, taking a certain amount of KE with it out the exit hole... and the animal will die relatively quickly. This may be a little over simpliifed but it illustrates the difference between KE and momentum.

So in short, if you want to look at down range numbers, I suggest looking at momentum and not energy. IMO energy doesn't mean squat (I can feel the heat already) Momentum is what will drive your bullet through the animal.

To support my opinion a little more, the formula for energy = KE = 1/2 m (v squred) You can see that in this equation, that much more emphasis is put on velocity than mass. In the equation for momentum, mass and velocity are given the same weght, p = mv, where p is momentum.

IMO, most bullets that have the velocity to open, also have the momentum to penetrate deer size animals. For larger game like elk, I like to see a minimum of 40 lbft/sec of momentum. But, the size and design of the bullet will affect how much momentum is required to provide adequate penetration. It is very difficult to come up with hard and fast rules.

Last, if you push your bullet to the edge of it's performance, you can expect slower kills. Bullets that penetrate at slower speed tend to make less "permament" wound channel damage. In other words, they *push* through more than they *tear* through.

Just something to think about.
 
Last edited:
Allot of questions are asked regarding best caliber for various kinds of game, and I'm trying to evaluate this from a quantitative perspective. I'm committed to the Humane Kill, so that puts bullet energy and accuracy at the top of the priority list.

I have found Berger Bullets to be very accurate in my match shooting and they have been recommended for hunting so I emailed Brian Litz of Berger Bullets to see what he thought and he responded with this;

There are a lot of variables involved in terminal ballistic performance, sothere are very few hard and fast rules that apply. A few rules of thumb are: you need at least 1000 ft-lb of kinetic energy to kill deer sized game, and Berger VLD's typically require an impact velocity of at least 1800 fps to fully and properly expand. What you want to do is find the bullet that gets the farthest downrange while satisfying both the velocity and kinetic energy requirements.

For example:
A 105 grain 6mm bullet needs to be going 2072 fps to hit with 1000 ft-lb.
A 168 grain 7mm bullet needs to be going 1638 fps to hit with 1000 ft-lb.
A 190 grain .30 cal bullet needs to be going 1540 fps to hit with 1000ft-lb.

These are just 3 arbitrary examples, you'll have to run the trajectories for the bullets and calibers you're considering, but that's how to do the analysis. Hope this helps,

-Bryan

After reading Brians Advice, I went to Quickload and Quicktarget to see what might work. I found that the 6.5/47 Lapua cartridge loaded with the Berger 130g VLD had a max range of 750ish yards and still maintain the 1000lb bullet energy and min. 1800 FPS. The 6mmXC cartridge provided slightly less range using the Berger 115g VLD.

Considering the prime directive of Accuracy & Terminal Energy/Velocity being paramont, has anyone else worked with this approach.

Thanks
Mark

Mark.

Your question is a good one and should get you lots of replies.

My take is a little different than a bullet makers because he will/should think his is the best.

But in order to meet the requirements you have posted (And I agree with your approach)
I add one factor "dependable Performance" on the specific game to be hunted.

There is a lot of difference between a deer and a Elk ,Just like bear and cape buffalo require
different types of bullets to achieve the fastest kills.

I like the SMKs and the VLDs because of accuracy but the extent of damage is inconsistent
from shot to shot so I believe that a more predictable bullet should be used that was
designed for hunting.

Shot placement has a lot to do with the performance of any bullet but some times a perfict
shot with the wrong bullet will be disappointing with ether to much meat damage or none.

An example of just such a phenomenom happened to me a few years ago while hunting
Elk with a 30/378 using a 200gr nozzler partition (A great bullet) and the accuracy of the
rifle is under 1/10 of an inch 5 shot groups.

So I made a good shot thinking it was a done deal,and much to my surprise he just stood
there looking at me like YOU MISSED so I cranked another round in him and he just stood
there glaring at me. So I decided it was his day and not mine.

Just as I laid my rifle down he fell down. While skinning him I descoverd the reason,Both
shots entered just behind the sholder and did not touch a rib and both exited just behind
the off side sholder without touching any ribs ( What are the odds ) neither bullet expanded
and left a bullet size hole both sides.

I have since switched to bullets with the ability to expand in soft tissue but hold together
when striking bone, Like the barnes x or the bonded bullets like the accubond.

I did'nt mean to be so long winded but some times we get caught up in hipe about The golden
Bullet or the one Perfict Rifle for everthing and there is no such thing because to gain one
thing we give up some part of another.

If you shoot at paper use target grade bullets ,If your hunting thick skinned game use heavy
jacketed or solid bullets,for thin skinned game use bonded or controled expansion type bullets
and for varmints where pelt damage is not an issue use thin jacketed bullets.

I realize some will not agree with me and thats ok because I want to save as much meat as
possible but I still want the same as everyone else (Quick one shot kills with little or no
tracking and with the right bullet choice this can be done.

Just an opinion
J E CUSTOM
 
I have to go with the 7mm Rem Mag with a 180 VLD. 1000+ yards with enough speed & energy to work great - and much easier to shoot precisely than a magnum 30+ cal.. Easy to find brass, shoots factory ammo in a pinch, and did I mention less wind drift than the big boys as well? :^)

Of course, there are many other "right" answers to your question.
 
I do not think there is a "best caliber" but there is a bullet and load combo within each caliber that are most deadly at different ranges.
I recently purchased a 270 wsm, I'm pushing 140gr AccuBonds @ 3350 fps with sum MOA accuracy. I think this will do great on deer for long range and will also do good on elk to about 800yds ish. But not over kill @ any range.
I can see a time in the future I'd like to get something in the range of a 338 AM or 338 Edge for a great long range elk gun.
I really like the 6.5-270 stuff and the heavy 338 stuff, I have a real dislike for 7mm and 30 cals. Thought that is just personal on my part.
Unfortunaly I have to be a one gun man
icon9.gif
for now.
 
ok for a minimum go with a 7mm short mag and a 180gr vld it will outperform most 30 cal short mags with everything except energy but the 7mm Rem SAUM is my pick but if you want to bstep up from a 7mm mag bypass the 30cal and build a 338 Edge if you want to hammer things to a mile.

Cheers Bill
Australia
 
I shoot 1k BR and also hunt long range and the round you are thinking of is a little light. For all of my 1k shooting give or take a few hundred yards it is my 338 Slowpoke, which starts as a 338 Lapua. Accuracy, ability to read the wind are the keys to being successful at long range. The most accurate rifle in the world will do you no good unless you are able to judge conditions when pulling the trigger. The key is practice, practice and then practice some more..

Good Luck!
 
I think JE Custom hit the nail on this.-

But.. caliber is not the same as cartridge.- I´d say the best caliber is one that gives you the bullet weight you need and as high a BC as possible.- In my opinion, a 6,5 for small game, a 7 mm for medium game, and a 300 or a 338 for heavy game.- However there´s many more choices , bullet wise, in the 30 cal.-

I would use 6,5 or 7 mm VLD bullets for small game ( Berger or AMax), 6,5 or better 7 mm for medium game at moderate or long ranges, and 300 or 338 bonded bullets for heav¡er game.
 
I think JE Custom hit the nail on this.-

But.. caliber is not the same as cartridge.- I´d say the best caliber is one that gives you the bullet weight you need and as high a BC as possible.- In my opinion, a 6,5 for small game, a 7 mm for medium game, and a 300 or a 338 for heavy game.- However there´s many more choices , bullet wise, in the 30 cal.-

I would use 6,5 or 7 mm VLD bullets for small game ( Berger or AMax), 6,5 or better 7 mm for medium game at moderate or long ranges, and 300 or 338 bonded bullets for heav¡er game.

I couldnt agree with you more alg. If you have to kill somthing big fast, shoot somthing big fast. Dont play around with little bullets.
 
I understand the thinking about the bias of a bullet maker, but I will tell you that Bergers have served me well in field conditions! Also Sierra Match Kings have performed well! I have used only 1 Hornady (A-max) in recent years and it performed well. Barnes worked on and elk for me. So I do not think there is a single answer in that regard. You should match heavy skinned game (elk, pigs, bear, etc, ) with a bullet that will retain weight and penetrate. Beyond that accuracy is the most important part. Good luck with whatever you choose! Ken
 
Warning! This thread is more than 16 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.
Top