Whats happened with Hybrids?
- Thread starter tbrice23
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Canadian Bushman
Well-Known Member
Man those 600 yd targets are small!!
You're vertical dispersion looks awesome!
You're vertical dispersion looks awesome!
Eric Stecker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 292
tbrice23,
I've reviewed this situation internally and there has been a miscommunication. Your bullets need to be reviewed at our shop so that we can confirm your dimensions. The best way for this to happen is for you to send us 2-3 bullets from each group at the extreme edges of the population.
We won't need to measure the bullets in the middle of the curve. We need to be absolutely clear on what has occured. Getting a consistent B.S. reading is a challenge and the ways (reasons why) this dimension can vary are numerous. It will be easier to identify the root cause if we can measure the bullets on our equipment.
If we find that the bullets fall outside of our .003 ES tolerance they will be replaced with bullets that don't.
There was confusion on our end as to the question being asked of our Plant Manager. His understanding of the question was whether or not the bullets are good after having been sorted. The answer is that they should shoot. What was communicated to you is where the miscommunication occured. We would never agree that a bullet with .007 variation is within our tolerance.
What I would offer at this point is that you try these bullets. Pick some from each group you've created and shoot them against bullets from one of the groups. If the mixed bullets shoot as well as bullets from one group then you are good to go.
The difference in the potential root cause of what you've observed is not as clear cut as it may seem and without getting into the weeds it is likely that your target won't show any differences between them.
However, if they don't shoot well, please let us know and we will replace the entire lot, even those you used to shoot your test. We absolutely stand behind our product and our quality. This is not marketing hype but a factual expectation.
I am eager to make sure that you and anyone who shoots Berger is completely satisfied. As we've grown, our top priority is that we do so in a manner that does not disrupt quality.
It is possible that things will slip by from time to time as is true of any brand. However, I believe we are the quickest to accept our mistakes when they happen and to make thing right in the end.
Regards,
Eric Stecker
Executive Vice President
Berger Bullets.
I've reviewed this situation internally and there has been a miscommunication. Your bullets need to be reviewed at our shop so that we can confirm your dimensions. The best way for this to happen is for you to send us 2-3 bullets from each group at the extreme edges of the population.
We won't need to measure the bullets in the middle of the curve. We need to be absolutely clear on what has occured. Getting a consistent B.S. reading is a challenge and the ways (reasons why) this dimension can vary are numerous. It will be easier to identify the root cause if we can measure the bullets on our equipment.
If we find that the bullets fall outside of our .003 ES tolerance they will be replaced with bullets that don't.
There was confusion on our end as to the question being asked of our Plant Manager. His understanding of the question was whether or not the bullets are good after having been sorted. The answer is that they should shoot. What was communicated to you is where the miscommunication occured. We would never agree that a bullet with .007 variation is within our tolerance.
What I would offer at this point is that you try these bullets. Pick some from each group you've created and shoot them against bullets from one of the groups. If the mixed bullets shoot as well as bullets from one group then you are good to go.
The difference in the potential root cause of what you've observed is not as clear cut as it may seem and without getting into the weeds it is likely that your target won't show any differences between them.
However, if they don't shoot well, please let us know and we will replace the entire lot, even those you used to shoot your test. We absolutely stand behind our product and our quality. This is not marketing hype but a factual expectation.
I am eager to make sure that you and anyone who shoots Berger is completely satisfied. As we've grown, our top priority is that we do so in a manner that does not disrupt quality.
It is possible that things will slip by from time to time as is true of any brand. However, I believe we are the quickest to accept our mistakes when they happen and to make thing right in the end.
Regards,
Eric Stecker
Executive Vice President
Berger Bullets.
Last edited:
Broz
Well-Known Member
Plus one. Just back after being gone to the shot show for a week and you know he is a busy man with the way they are trying to keep up. Yet the executive vice president of the company has time to deal with someone personally to insure their full satisfaction.
Just the way they have always treated me too.
Jeff
Canadian Bushman
Well-Known Member
If those few extra bucks you spend on berger bullets didnt seem worth it i bet they do now.
Eric, Thank you for you response. I was actually wondering if you were still around.
I will send samples of the extremes to Ryan Neal for review.
Once again thanks for you response it makes all the difference in a lot of shooters ' attitudes and outlook.
I will send samples of the extremes to Ryan Neal for review.
Once again thanks for you response it makes all the difference in a lot of shooters ' attitudes and outlook.
Eric Stecker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 292
I appreciate your kind words. It is true that as Berger has grown I am not as available as I used to be to get on the forums (which is regrettable as I enjoy them).
However, Berger's core beliefs and processes have not changed. Everyone should expect bullets within our tolerances as they are listed on our website or they can expect to get the matter resolved quickly and completely.
I let Ryan know to expect the samples and to pass them along to our production team for review when they arrive.
Regards,
Eric
However, Berger's core beliefs and processes have not changed. Everyone should expect bullets within our tolerances as they are listed on our website or they can expect to get the matter resolved quickly and completely.
I let Ryan know to expect the samples and to pass them along to our production team for review when they arrive.
Regards,
Eric
Last edited:
cowboy
Well-Known Member
I think I just heard an "AMEN".
Good to hear that Walt Berger's original principal's of doing business are alive and well.
Good to hear that Walt Berger's original principal's of doing business are alive and well.
Eric Stecker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 292
As is Walt. At 85 he spent all four days at the SHOT Show doing what he can to help those who ask. We couldn't keep him away if we tried.
Regards,
Eric
Regards,
Eric
cowboy
Well-Known Member
As is Walt. At 85 he spent all four days at the SHOT Show doing what he can to help those who ask. We couldn't keep him away if we tried.
Regards,
Eric
HeHe
. kind of tickles my funny bone hearing that. That's the kind of impression I had of him.I have never had the privilege to meet the fine gentleman in person but have had many email exchanges and phone conversations with him - this pretty much took place before Berger Bullets were somebody. WHAT A KNOWLEDGEABLE/HELPFUL GENTLEMAN.
He could teach me more in a 10 min. phone conversation than I could figure out on my own in a month.
Hope he's around for another 85 years.
Hunter2678
Well-Known Member
royinidaho
Well-Known Member
I'm liking Eric's input on this thread.
Can't wait till those additional machines get up and running. Looking forward to those "new" 277 and 7mm offerings. . .
Wonder if they'd consider an pro bono intern? I could use some warm weather.
Can't wait till those additional machines get up and running. Looking forward to those "new" 277 and 7mm offerings. . .
Wonder if they'd consider an pro bono intern? I could use some warm weather.
I'm liking Eric's input on this thread.
Can't wait till those additional machines get up and running. Looking forward to those "new" 277 and 7mm offerings. . .
Wonder if they'd consider an pro bono intern? I could use some warm weather.
Are you going to try to tip those?
