cowboy
Well-Known Member
Times two.
Whats happened with Hybrids?
- Thread starter tbrice23
- Start date
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Times two.
Just got an email from berger. The plant management said that 'the variance was within their tolerance per lot and the sorting I did should be good enough. And that I shouldn't have to weigh them.'
You bet you *** im weighing them!
So basically I can save a lot of money by sorting and shooting Sierra and Hornady.
So much for confidence in Berger standing behind their product or making it right. I guess the bigger a company gets the more their attitude changes. I guarantee they had banner years 3 or 4 years in a row so "screw em if they dont like something, we'll sell more".
You bet you *** im weighing them!
So basically I can save a lot of money by sorting and shooting Sierra and Hornady.
So much for confidence in Berger standing behind their product or making it right. I guess the bigger a company gets the more their attitude changes. I guarantee they had banner years 3 or 4 years in a row so "screw em if they dont like something, we'll sell more".
Wow ! That is truly stupid on their behalf. I'll just buy much cheaper Sierra , Speer , and Hornady if I start getting low QC from Berger. It will be interesting when I get my new 7mm 168gr vlds. If they come in with this poor of QC then I'll start working with something else and save a bundle.
IdahoRedneck
Well-Known Member
Before you go flying off the handle, what do they weigh, are these all the same lot number........
Regardless , if the customer isn't satisfied then offer to replace or refund. It's a lot better to have happy customers than disgruntled former customers trashing your name. He is contacting them because he isn't a satisfied customer and has given them the chance to make him satisfied. Passingon that oopportunity is a poor decision imo. And yes , he stated it was all the same lot and gave the number in a later post.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
Here are Bergers specs and recommendation for measuring, I would say therein spec. The larger the bullet the larger the spec range so not hard to see where you should be at!!
"When using Berger Bullets, the serious rifle shooter can be confident of the fact that the "SHOOT BETTER, SHOOT BERGER" slogan we use is based on fact rather than marketing hype. Sure we are proud of our bullets and the efforts it takes to make them. However, there are very real science based reasons why Bergers are actually better. The points below are both factual tolerances and dimensions, or policies and procedures that we use to ensure our highest quality reputation.
We use only the highest quality copper and lead available to eliminate impurities or other material issues. Our material vendors have been in their industry for decades. We have regular meetings at their facility and ours to refresh our mutual understanding of our highest material quality requirements.
Our bullet weight tolerances are listed below. The actual results are usually tighter than these tolerances allow:
Our bullet base to ogive (bearing surface) tolerances are listed below. It is important to note that measuring this dimension is difficult as the point of contact is a thin and rounded surface. If you find measurements greater than the tolerances listed below please measure the same 10 bullets several times to confirm that your measuring device is reliable and repeatable (many on the market are not). We use a specially developed process which includes custom made gauges to ensure reliable and repeatable measurements. Most reports of bullets outside this tolerance are found to be the result of how they are measured:
"When using Berger Bullets, the serious rifle shooter can be confident of the fact that the "SHOOT BETTER, SHOOT BERGER" slogan we use is based on fact rather than marketing hype. Sure we are proud of our bullets and the efforts it takes to make them. However, there are very real science based reasons why Bergers are actually better. The points below are both factual tolerances and dimensions, or policies and procedures that we use to ensure our highest quality reputation.
We use only the highest quality copper and lead available to eliminate impurities or other material issues. Our material vendors have been in their industry for decades. We have regular meetings at their facility and ours to refresh our mutual understanding of our highest material quality requirements.
Our bullet weight tolerances are listed below. The actual results are usually tighter than these tolerances allow:
- 20 gr to 60 gr — +or- 0.05 gr
- 62 gr to 115 gr — +or- 0.1 gr
- 120 gr to 168 gr — +or- 0.15 gr
- 175 gr to 210 gr — +or- 0.2 gr
Our bullet base to ogive (bearing surface) tolerances are listed below. It is important to note that measuring this dimension is difficult as the point of contact is a thin and rounded surface. If you find measurements greater than the tolerances listed below please measure the same 10 bullets several times to confirm that your measuring device is reliable and repeatable (many on the market are not). We use a specially developed process which includes custom made gauges to ensure reliable and repeatable measurements. Most reports of bullets outside this tolerance are found to be the result of how they are measured:
- 20 gr to 115 gr — .003 ES
- 120 gr to 210 gr — .005 ES
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Canadian Bushman
Well-Known Member
Tbrice
I wouldnt be too upset. Like you i measure and weigh my bullets and have also noticed an increase in deviation among lots. This deviation isnt greater than what ive noticed over the last few years just more concentrated. I think westcliff had a point in noting how busy berger must be and this could be a result of them busting their hump to get bullets out the door. This will definitely lead to lots varying more and even qc slip ups. I found a couple of berger bullets way outta their spec as well but it was literally 1 outta 500. Qc slip up? No doubt, but it was way better than some of the hornady's and seirras ive measured too.
The ones that are way outta spec i mark and use to check the calibration of my equip throughout my process solely because they are rare.
If you wanna stop buying bergers, thats your right as a consumer, but i think your gonna see the same thing with other manufacturers as well until they all get caught up.
When i was sorting hornady hpbt match bullets i needed 16 bins to sort them out and i had to sort over 200 just to put 50 together with the same consistency as a radom grab from a berger box.
Seirra was better but hey they cost a little more too. Prime example of getting what you pay for.
Besides, isnt this why we sort bullets?
I wouldnt be too upset. Like you i measure and weigh my bullets and have also noticed an increase in deviation among lots. This deviation isnt greater than what ive noticed over the last few years just more concentrated. I think westcliff had a point in noting how busy berger must be and this could be a result of them busting their hump to get bullets out the door. This will definitely lead to lots varying more and even qc slip ups. I found a couple of berger bullets way outta their spec as well but it was literally 1 outta 500. Qc slip up? No doubt, but it was way better than some of the hornady's and seirras ive measured too.
The ones that are way outta spec i mark and use to check the calibration of my equip throughout my process solely because they are rare.
If you wanna stop buying bergers, thats your right as a consumer, but i think your gonna see the same thing with other manufacturers as well until they all get caught up.
When i was sorting hornady hpbt match bullets i needed 16 bins to sort them out and i had to sort over 200 just to put 50 together with the same consistency as a radom grab from a berger box.
Seirra was better but hey they cost a little more too. Prime example of getting what you pay for.
Besides, isnt this why we sort bullets?
Canadian Bushman
Well-Known Member
I think if you didnt sort them and got two that were on opposite ends of the spectrum you would see a difference, at extended range of course. The way you are sorting i think you will be better than ok.
I think it may seem a bit worse looking at the extreme spread especially with the large numbers you are sorting. Run the numbers on the standard deviation, your confidence will return. Lol
RTK
Well-Known Member
It would be interesting to reload a few from each extreme and go to the range and see if there is a significant difference on paper.
Has anyone done this and posted the results? Just curious as I do not sort my bullets, only by lot #'s
Has anyone done this and posted the results? Just curious as I do not sort my bullets, only by lot #'s
