What is the absolutely most accurate automatic Powder Despenser???

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by mindcrime, Jun 22, 2015.

  1. mindcrime

    mindcrime Well-Known Member

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    I am in the market for a automatic Powder Scale and powder Despenser. I see that most are accurate to +/- .1 og a grain. Are there any that are outstanding or highly rated for precision loads? How about +/- 0.05 grain accuracy? THANKS!
     
  2. g0rd0

    g0rd0 Well-Known Member

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    personally I do not use them. I have 2 friends who do 1 rbcs the other hornady both are within .1grns. However after watching them both work I have found that there is no time saved, and they are noisy.
    But if you are in the market there are 2 things that that you need to know before you take the plunge 1. they must have a 5 minite warmup time and 2. they must be calibrated each time you set them up
     
  3. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Well-Known Member

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  4. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    The very term 'automatic' implies less accuracy, much like a semi-automatic rifle requires a sloppier fit cartridge to chamber so it will cycle, same applies to a automated powder dispenser.

    My take is, if you want extreme consistency, weigh each charge on a reliable Ohaus powder scale, thats what I do. I do use an electronic scale for mass loadings but only a scale to verify the thrown charge.

    If you want to accurize your powder throws, invest in a culver powder measure like a Harrell. Not cheap either but extremely consistent.
     
  5. barefooter56

    barefooter56 Well-Known Member

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    mindcrime,
    Unless you want to spend some big bucks on a Prometheus powder measure like was stated before. A good beam scale or one of the 1000 dollar and up SARTORIUS scale with the magnetic dampened strain gauge combined with an OMEGA trickler and Redding or Harrells powder measure is your best bet. Especially with stick powders. Ball and flake usually meter really well through a standard powder measure. the new short-cut stick powders also meter fairly well also. This is for WEIGHING your charges. Thrown charges are another discussion.
     
  6. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    The Harrell Culver measure is about as good as it gets with reservations that bugs me. Why didn't Linnwood go for the bigger bottle that would allow one to simply thread on a standard powder container? All powder dispensers have a window they work out of that are their most accurate. The Harrell has the largest window I've ever seen. Roughly 85%! The down side of this is volume, or capacity. If memory is right, my Harrell is maxed out at 60 grains (a gazillion clicks). Never been in love with the idea od throwing a double charge, but guess it's OK if needed. The next issue with the Harrell is that it works best with fine grained powders (Ball), and trust me it will dump a hundred loads within a 1.5 grain window (+/-.075 grain). Just as fast as you can pull the arm. The next hiccup is the way it works. You must learn to count clicks. Numbers mean very little. No problem if your smart enough to create a log book. The Harrell will go right back to any setting as if you never stopped, and this is a huge advantage.

    What you can do if your allowance is running short! Buy a Lyman built #55 (not the Chinese one). Get the Sinclair bottle adapter and baffle along with several drop tubes (both measures have to have drop tubes). I have one, and it will do a +/- .1 grain window once you learn to use it. The China built ones will not do this! Now there are Culver inserts out there for the Lyman (Homer preferred the Lyman over most others), but expect to pay out the nose!

    So we need an auto measure. No problem, I just set the "Devine Ms G" (trust she is very Devine) on a stool and have her pull the lever while I seat bullets. Pretty cheap and only needs a little bit of maintenance. She even knows how to trickle powder after throwing a light load. OTW close to perfection!
    gary
     
  7. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    Geeze Gary, I can't even get my Mrs. Devine to mow the yard:D

    You get what you pay for, I have a Harrrell's and it's a bit short on capacity, you just divide by 2 and hit it twice.
     
  8. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    No, I moved up from a Harrell thrower to a ChargeMaster, and this was a big improvement for measured accuracy.
    Prometheus is the best.
     
  9. mindcrime

    mindcrime Well-Known Member

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    I have an old, LIKE NEW "Precision Rifles" Culver that I use for a .262 6mm PPC, AND WAS CONSIDERING using it for .223 loading, BUT FOR A LARGE CAPACITY CASE??? Guess I was just looking for a faster way to load my bigger cases. My old Culiver, which coincidentally came from Sinclair, the PPC was built by Sinclair when they first got started! SO, I am assuming that folks are recommending, perhaps throwing two charges from the Culiver, the hand trickle the rest? I have a Lyman 1200 electronic scale for what it's worth. PLEASE, keep the comments flowing, AND THANKS!!!
     
  10. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    I double hit my Harrell for the big charges (like 338 Lapua), I can just squeak by on 223 handloads. I agree with tricky, the powder tank is tiny and someone needs to make a 1 pound powder jar adapter.

    The Harrell really shines on pistol loads where the charges are small.
     
  11. johnnyk

    johnnyk Well-Known Member

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    My setup involves the RCBS ChargeMaster, a Mettler Toledo AB104-S (Analytical Balance w/Shields) and an Omega electronic trickler. This setup is very accurate (+/- .002gn) but not as fast as throwing charges. Once you're used to it, things move along pretty fast. It is especially nice for doing load develpment when you have a range in your back yard.
    The trick is finding the analytical balance at a price that doesn't rival a used car. If that is not possible, check out Omega's website (Ammo Reloading | Reloading Equipment | Omega Powder Trickler | Dandy Reloading Tools) as they have setup's for using balance beams. JohnnyK.
     

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  12. bruce_ventura

    bruce_ventura Well-Known Member

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    This process sounds pretty old school to me. Throwing charges with a volume powder measure, followed by manually trickling grains is a slow process. If you can get a family member to help, then great. But if it were me, I would have my helper prep brass, not measure charges. I already have a helper automatically weighing my charges to within +/- 0.05 gr – it’s called a Chargemaster.

    Many people use the terms accuracy and precision (i.e., reproducibility) interchangeably, but these terms are not the same. If you really want absolute accuracy (i.e., exactly 50.05 gr instead of 50.10 gr) then as barefooter56 and johnnyk said, you need to buy a very good digital scale.

    However, most handloaders actually want precision (i.e., nominally 50.1 gr, but within +/-0.05 gr, time after time), not accuracy. If you really want precision rather than accuracy, then I think a CM will meet your needs, as well as speeding up the process. The CM scale reads in 0.1 grain increments, but the precision of my CM seems to be even better than that.

    When I put a weighing pan on my CM and zero the scale, the CM actually weighs the pan, stores that value, and then subtracts that stored value from subsequent measured values. If the precision was inherently poor, the zero would vary with time, reflecting a change in the measured value for the weighing pan over time (i.e., poor reproducibility). I find that as long as the CM is warmed up (10 min), it never drifts off of zero and always reads 0.0 gr. That says to me that the precision is actually +/- 0.05 gr or better. Granted, my CM sits on a 20 lb level granite slab, which also helps provide thermal stability.

    When I handload, I have the CM weighing while I’m handling cases and seating bullets with the press. I just place the weighing pan on the scale and press "DISP" on the keypad. While the CM is doing it's thing, I seat the bullet into the last case, move the loaded cartridge to the ammo box, and grab and new case. When I’m done, the CM is finished dispensing the charge and I transfer the charge to the new (empty) case. It’s as though I have a helper constantly weighing my charges to within +/- 0.05 gr. About 20% of the time the CM dispenses 3-5 grains too much. I pull those grains out with a small spatula – which usually takes an extra 10 seconds.
     
  13. FearNoWind

    FearNoWind Well-Known Member

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    I've tried a few and I like my RCBS Chargemaster 1500 the best. It certainly does provide loads to within .1gr, depending on the powder I'm using, and if it happens to dump a small overload it's simple enough to pick up the pan, remove a few granuals and move forward. Ball powders measure more accurately than stick powders, of course, but I don't find it to be an overwhelming responsibility to adjust the amount of powder in the pan twice in a fifty round loading cycle. And the "noise" doesn't disturb my neighbors or my lovely wife who may be sleeping in the next room. It's certainly quieter than my case cleaning equipment.
    Getting charges measured down to within .05 grains of accuracy isa pipe dream IMO. If any shooter can find any consistent measurable difference on target between 48.3 and 48.4 grains of powder in a load he ought to be shooting in the Nationals - maybe the Olympics. :rolleyes:
     
  14. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    Well, realistically the best you can do is charge to single kernel. There are many scales/balances that go beyond this and that's great. Those scales are not very good reloading scales IMO(not what they're for). They're great for calibration checking more useful reloading scales.

    I've modified my CM so that I can quickly tune to each powder so that the last jog drops a single kernel of that powder. I have to watch it and see for myself that last jog didn't drop 2 kernels instead of one. I don't just set it & forget it.
    Anyone here could do this, I could show you how.