What am I doing wrong here!!

Roughrice

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May 5, 2021
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372
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Louisiana
case in shell holder , ram up no die , lift seater high in die body. die in until feel touch , back off 1/4 turn, adjust seater stem down to your COAL

use the longest case or trim all to match the one you used to set up
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He may need to back out closer to 1 or 1 1/4 rounds off of shell holder to be sure not to engage crimp curl... If his die has one.

But... I really don't think that's his tight neck problem.
 

Ucsdryder

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Jan 23, 2016
Messages
337
I found my problem. And possibly have a different one. 🤦🏻‍♂️

A buddy let me use his Wilson expanding mandrel. It instantly worked and solved my issue! Some of the virgin brass was really tight going through the mandrel!

here’s my potential issue… I think the mandrel is opening the necks up too much. I was able to hand seat about half of the bullets 1/8” or so and they took almost no pressure to seat in the press. When I ran them through the magazine and into the chamber of my rifle they were actually lengthening in COAL by about .002”, even though they were well off the lands.

Would a potential issue be to polish the mandrel Slightly to make it a little bit smaller? The mandrel is .263.
 

QuietTexan

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Nov 16, 2020
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Fort Worth, Texas
LE Wilson "new" expanding mandrel should be 0.0015" under caliber, so should measure to 0.2625". No problem polishing it down some if that's what you want. FWIW I use the same mandrel on new Lapua brass in 6.5CM and seating pressure was fine for me. What is the neck thickness of your brass?

21st Century makes mandrels in 0.0005" increments if you want to match your neck thickness when reloading the cases after they've been fired:
 

Ucsdryder

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Jan 23, 2016
Messages
337
LE Wilson "new" expanding mandrel should be 0.015 under caliber, so should measure to 0.249". No problem polishing it down some if that's what you want. FWIW I use the same mandrel on new Lapua brass in 6.5CM and seating pressure was fine for me. What is the neck thickness of your brass?

21st Century makes mandrels in 0.0005" increments if you want to match your neck thickness when reloading the cases after they've been fired:

The website says .263” for the mandrel.

OD of the neck pre-seating was .290” and post was .291”.
 

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QuietTexan

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Fort Worth, Texas
You're correct, the size of the mandrel is .263. I was remembering this from Ultimate Reloader:

  • Expander mandrel diameter: 0.243″
  • Initial inside neck diameter (new brass): 0.240″
  • Final inside neck diemeter (expanded brass): 0.2415″
  • Bullet diameter: (6mm) 0.243″
  • Final interference fit, bullet to neck: 0.0015″

 

Ucsdryder

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Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Messages
337
LE Wilson "new" expanding mandrel should be 0.0015" under caliber, so should measure to 0.2625". No problem polishing it down some if that's what you want. FWIW I use the same mandrel on new Lapua brass in 6.5CM and seating pressure was fine for me. What is the neck thickness of your brass?

21st Century makes mandrels in 0.0005" increments if you want to match your neck thickness when reloading the cases after they've been fired:


virgin brass
Neck ID .260
Neck OD.2885

virgin brass FL size
Neck ID .261
Neck OD .2895
 

Hugnot

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Sep 26, 2020
Messages
736
Location
Montana
I can feel it in the handle when raising the Ram.

This is a Summit press, and your bullet seating issue is when raising the ram. ....
I don't get it.
Bullets are stuck in the seating stem as shown by radial distortion on ogive - like jammed tight.

This would indicate excessive force in seating bullets. Have I missed seeing any actual neck ID measurements?

I found my problem. And possibly have a different one. 🤦🏻‍♂️

A buddy let me use his Wilson expanding mandrel. It instantly worked and solved my issue! Some of the virgin brass was really tight going through the mandrel!

here’s my potential issue… I think the mandrel is opening the necks up too much. I was able to hand seat about half of the bullets 1/8” or so and they took almost no pressure to seat in the press. When I ran them through the magazine and into the chamber of my rifle they were actually lengthening in COAL by about .002”, even though they were well off the lands.

Would a potential issue be to polish the mandrel Slightly to make it a little bit smaller? The mandrel is .263.
.263 - .2615 = .0015 or the .263 expander is .0015 bigger than the .2615 expander. The .263 expander use has exceeded the neck yield strength resulting in inadequate neck tension ("almost no pressure to seat in the press").

Neck walls thicken upon use from back to front, this would account for variations in neck ID. Assuming no brass spring back a .264 bullet using a .263 expander, would only have .001 neck tension. I think the .2615 expander would work with neck turning & annealing.

Of note:


Best to turn necks and periodic anneal vs. polishing expanders
 
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243winxb

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Sep 9, 2016
Messages
613
Location
USA
OD of the neck pre-seating was .290” and post was .291”.
I found after a few loadings, the neck wall thickness gets smaller by a tiny amount or something changes. (Bushing die & neck turned brass, with lite drag from expander.) The .001" become to little. I like .002"
Most of my experience is with 243 Win.

Standard factory FL dies can & will thin neck walls by over working brass, under some conditions. It happens slowly & can be measured in about 3 loadings. But there is enough neck tension to still hold the bullets.
 

DUSTY NOGGIN

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Mar 18, 2015
Messages
874
Location
salt lake city
what does the expander button in your rcbs die measure ???

i wouldnt polish down your buddy tools

polish down your own ,

heres one for a 277 , that you can sand/polish down to whatever works ... on the cheap

 

Ucsdryder

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Jan 23, 2016
Messages
337
what does the expander button in your rcbs die measure ???

i wouldnt polish down your buddy tools

polish down your own ,

heres one for a 277 , that you can sand/polish down to whatever works ... on the cheap

Haha I wasn’t going to polish my buddies. I’ll call Rcbs and see what they say. I might just go further down the rabbit hole and get the expanding mandrel then bushings to size down exactly where I want it and be done with it. 🤦🏻‍♂️
 

DUSTY NOGGIN

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Mar 18, 2015
Messages
874
Location
salt lake city
recommend cheap route first ,
keep in mind some of the guys on these forums are elite level and would pay 4000 for a machine that would guarantee their powder was to the 100th of a grain

the rabbit hole , is deep and expensive ...
< evil voice > you'll never be done with it ...... ahh hha hha hha hha hha haaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa < evil voice />
 

DUSTY NOGGIN

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Mar 18, 2015
Messages
874
Location
salt lake city
RCBS (800) 533-5000

the problem with rcbs dies is that they are universal ,in that they oversize at the neck by reducing wayyyy too much on the down , then have to open it back up on the up , spring back happens

if your gonna go down rabbit hole getcha a neck turner and all the pilots for every caliber you own. chances are that if ya turn down the neck wall thickness , your rcbs die will still push the outside in the same, BUT the inside will size inward less . many things will help your situationand other problems you havent even had yet ... thinner moves easier , trues up wall variations , make all brass require same seating pressures . plus, ill bet you , you have one in a year anyway ,

i think most that do, would agree neck turning is the biggest upgrade to reloading... neck cutters are cheaper than bushing dies... it can essentially make it so you do NOT have to get/pay a bushing die ( depending on measurement of your chamber/ once fired brass ) -- because you can sometimes turn you necks down to match the inexpensive dies internal neck dimensions rather than buying bushings to match the brass
 
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