Well finally did it...sold all my reloading stuff !! Anyone else shooting factory ?
- Thread starter Terry3006
- Start date
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I'm just thankful that after my Grandpa returned from the war in Korea he found time to teach my father the proper way to reload ammunition......
Coyote_Hunter
Well-Known Member
Thanks. Have been using that bench since 1982 when I got started. It used to be my electronics workbench. Added the top three shelves a few years ago.
My oldest grandkid started "helping" me when he was about 4 years old (he's five now). He likes to help sort brass by cartridge type when it comes out of the tumbler, but I have to do some QC afterwards if the cartridges are similar (.280 and .30-06 in particular). He also likes pulling the lever on the press to size brass and seat bullets. Time to get the next one started as he is four now.
Speaking of factory ammo, looks like SOCOM snipers for the next year will be loaded by Berger using the following bullets and brass. Seems like they would decide on either .300 WinMag or Norma or Berger vs Lapua but I guess they have deep pockets. Oddly enough Army went with Sig ammo in .300 WM for the same period (assume Delta snipers are partly in SOCOM).
"The SOCOM 300 Norma Mag ammunition will be loaded with Berger .30 caliber, 215 grain Hybrid bullets and Lapua cartridge cases while the 200,000 rounds of 338 Norma Mag will be assembled using Lapua cartridge cases and the Lapua .338 caliber, 300 grain AP529 projectile."
"The SOCOM 300 Norma Mag ammunition will be loaded with Berger .30 caliber, 215 grain Hybrid bullets and Lapua cartridge cases while the 200,000 rounds of 338 Norma Mag will be assembled using Lapua cartridge cases and the Lapua .338 caliber, 300 grain AP529 projectile."
UplandFreak
Well-Known Member
This is just it - you are at a phase in your life where you put very little value on your time. Not all of us are there. I am 38, two busy kids, responsibilities in my church and am in management. I am with @Tangent. If I have some free in the evenings it is spent with my wife and kids.
Everybody has different priorities, maybe down the road when I retire I won't value my time so much and get back into reloading as well.
Also, @L.Sherm my groups hold up well out to 1250 with factory ammo. Maybe not 1/4 moa, but 1/2-3/4 moa no problem.
UplandFreak
Well-Known Member
You are just in denial - probably haven't tried some good factory ammo recently which makes you ignorant is all. When was the last time you bought some premium ammo like Hornady match and shot it out past 500 yards? Probably never.....
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J E Custom
Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter how good any ammo Is , if the rifle doesn't like it. That's the reason we work up loads to find the ammo that "IT" likes. If the rifle likes any load, at some point if you keep looking, you may/will always find something that the rifle likes better.
I learned this on my 7/08 factory ammo struggled to produce 1/2 moa results. After working up different loads I reduced the MOA from a .500 average to a .072 thousandths 5 shot group and it would consistently stay under .100 thousandths if I was on my game. (Can't blame the rifle or the ammo If I don't do my part).
Obviously, I was very happy with it's performance and stuck with this load for 4 or 5 years. Having very little ability to leave well enough alone, I thought I would change one thing based on experiences with different primers and switched primers only in the load. it reduced the first group size so I continued shooting groups with this ammo to get an average.
The best 5 shot group ended up being .053 and the worst was .081 (Better than some of the old faithful load accuracy). This was an improvement of .019 thousandths in accuracy. I know this doesn't sound like much of an improvement but Percentage wise it is huge especially at 600 to 1000 yards. Bench rest guys measure accuracy improvements by one or two thousandths, not moa.
The point I am trying to make is that if the ammo is the best for your rifle, It doesn't matter if it is factory or hand loaded, but how are you going to find this out if you don't try some hand loads along with some factory loads.
If I could find a factory load that could beat the best hand load I had for the rifle, I would stop re loading for it and switch to the factory loading but so far factory ammo has just not done that and by a margin that is to great for me to except. 1/2 moa Is very good accuracy for most, but 1/10th moa is better in my opinion and if it can be achieved worth the trouble.
I raised 3 kids, and loaded the entire time they lived at home and at a much greater savings then but always took time to hand load after everything settled down. (It was my quiet time) and looked forward to the results and the time.
I am happy that the ammo makers are taking the time to do a better job, and this helps those that don't re load. But whatever anyone's belief is the undeniable truth is that a round Tailored for an
individual rifle will always be more accurate. and to some that is important and the main reason they re load
J E CUSTOM
Coyote_Hunter
Well-Known Member
I wasn't always this old and didn't always have this much time on my hands. Started reloading before oldest daughter was born. Raised three girls and put them through college debt free.
Worked a LOT of overtime all through my career. Did a LOT of travelling for a week and two at a time as well. The LAST think I needed to do when I wasn't working was go fine another paying job. A person needs downtime for psychological health and stress relief. When the babies/girls/young ladies were in bed I could reload without waking them.
Still found time for my family AND my hobbies. Fortunately the girls liked fishing and camping. All are shooters, two are now hunters as well and the third likes to go along on the hunts. For Wyoming antelope the whole extended family goes, grandparents to grandkids. We think of it as "family time".
You are wrong about how I value my time. I value it VERY HIGHLY. It is MY time and I have no patience with people or things that waste it.
Coyote_Hunter
Well-Known Member
If L.Sherm is like me, he HAS shot factory ammo recently enough to know how good some of it shoots. (And also how poorly other factory ammo shoots.). When I purchased my 6.5 CM last December I also purchased some Hornady Match ammo. After zeroing my new Savage 12FV (26" heavy barrel), I was rewarded with three holes making a clover. Now I build ammo equally good but costing me $18 less per box.
I've also purchased Federal Premium ammo. It was very disappointing. I can load very accurate hunting ammo with premium bullets (TTSX, LRX, AB, ABLR, A-Frame, Scirocco II) for about the same cost as Winchester white box ammo and I can load very accurate practice ammo for a lot less.
Last time I shot at 500 yards or more? Almost every time I go to the range. My favorite targets are clay pigeons on the 600 yard berm. Using my hunting ammo I've had hit rates as high as 75% (8 of 12) using my 6.5-06AI, 33% with my sporter weight .338WM and 50% using one of my sporter weight .30-06 rifles. I shoot them with a variety of other rifles as well, all with handloads, and do pretty well when the almost-ever-present winds die down.
The photo shows targets at 400, 500 and 600 yards. The steel at 500 and the clays on the berms at 500 and 600 are also mine.
Any time you want to join me at the range shooting clays at 600 I'll be happy to take you.
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Coyote_Hunter
Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter how good any ammo Is , if the rifle doesn't like it. That's the reason we work up loads to find the ammo that "IT" likes. If the rifle likes any load, at some point if you keep looking, you may/will always find something that the rifle likes better.
I learned this on my 7/08 factory ammo struggled to produce 1/2 moa results. After working up different loads I reduced the MOA from a .500 average to a .072 thousandths 5 shot group and it would consistently stay under .100 thousandths if I was on my game. (Can't blame the rifle or the ammo If I don't do my part).
Obviously, I was very happy with it's performance and stuck with this load for 4 or 5 years. Having very little ability to leave well enough alone, I thought I would change one thing based on experiences with different primers and switched primers only in the load. it reduced the first group size so I continued shooting groups with this ammo to get an average.
The best 5 shot group ended up being .053 and the worst was .081 (Better than some of the old faithful load accuracy). This was an improvement of .019 thousandths in accuracy. I know this doesn't sound like much of an improvement but Percentage wise it is huge especially at 600 to 1000 yards. Bench rest guys measure accuracy improvements by one or two thousandths, not moa.
The point I am trying to make is that if the ammo is the best for your rifle, It doesn't matter if it is factory or hand loaded, but how are you going to find this out if you don't try some hand loads along with some factory loads.
If I could find a factory load that could beat the best hand load I had for the rifle, I would stop re loading for it and switch to the factory loading but so far factory ammo has just not done that and by a margin that is to great for me to except. 1/2 moa Is very good accuracy for most, but 1/10th moa is better in my opinion and if it can be achieved worth the trouble.
I raised 3 kids, and loaded the entire time they lived at home and at a much greater savings then but always took time to hand load after everything settled down. (It was my quiet time) and looked forward to the results and the time.
I am happy that the ammo makers are taking the time to do a better job, and this helps those that don't re load. But whatever anyone's belief is the undeniable truth is that a round Tailored for an
individual rifle will always be more accurate. and to some that is important and the main reason they re load
J E CUSTOM
Well said.
I will add that in my case - and I suspect yours and many others - reloading saved enough money that they got to shoot far more often while raising their family. As a new father I though kids would get cheaper when they got out of diapers. (Boy, was I WRONG!) Saving money by reloading was an important factor in how often and how much I could shoot.
Coyote_Hunter
Well-Known Member
Heading down to the reloading room now and leaving stupid arguments about how I value MY time behind. SIL got about 600 pieces of once-fired 5.56, mostly LC but with a few others thrown in. He plans to reload it for use in Daughters AR-15. I'm going to size/deprime the cases, swage the pockets and trim if necessary. Fun for me (I'll be listening to Rush and Sean) and a useful gift to them.
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Coyote_Hunter
Well-Known Member
To those that feel MY time spent reloading could be / should have been spent with family or making money...
First, a lot of my reloading time WAS spent with family.
Second, why are you posting stupid stuff on this forum? Why aren't you spending your time with your family or making money?
First, a lot of my reloading time WAS spent with family.
Second, why are you posting stupid stuff on this forum? Why aren't you spending your time with your family or making money?
UplandFreak
Well-Known Member
Sometimes 1/2 moa is good enough. If I can't find a gun that shoots factory ammo into 1/2 moa, I kick it down the road. A gun is a tool to me. If it isn't working like I need it to, I am done with it. Its less time and money for me to flip a rifle and buy new one, than spend hours at the reloading bench trying to find "the one". Also, there are a lot more 1moa and 2 moa shooters out there than 1/2 moa shooters who are thrilled with a gun that puts three into 3/4 or 1 moa. Although, my last two rifles, a bergara premier approach in 6mm CM and my Christensen BA tactical in 6.5 prc seem to like everything so far. Its not worth my time to keep picky guns in my safe. Both shoot 1/2 moa.
I am just in a different phase of my life than some of you. There is no need to make this personal. Reality is there has never been an easier time to pick up a factory rifle with factory ammo and got shoot 1/2 moa groups. Those who believe otherwise are stuck in the past. Reload if you want to reload. I don't care how anybody spends their time. For me, life is a little hectic right now, so I am grateful for all the high quality factory ammo.
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