Weird Issue with Run out
- Thread starter Aldon
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Agreed MikeCR....This has been good learning experience. I appreciate the time you guys spent helping me with this issue.
I have approximately halved the run out from what I was seeing previously.
I do believe I will need to go through and cull brass. Seems an absolute, but I am pleased with the progress thus far.
Up to this point, I had always used the fired brass and after cleaning it, went straight to Collet dies.
This was fine for the first few reloadings but I had noticed accuracy falling off.
Then my relocation out east put things on hold for a bit.
Two things I see that happened different this time around.
I was getting everything set back up and during the holidays I read an old article in Rifle Shooter Magazine by Glen Zediker "A Sizable Matter" and decided to try and partially resize.
So that is the first thing which lead to me not expanding the neck enough due to no expander ball on full length sizer. (Thanks for that catch Flashhole)
Edit..Forgot the second thing....The addition of the Sinclair Concentricity guage to the arsenal.
I did find some error correction in the items Gary told me to try as well. Also lost the ^%#@ spring and had to hunt for it for about 45 minutes.....
I think with some properly vetted brass I can regularly get total run out to less than .003 with regularity based on what I am now seeing. Not sure based on the definition you give MikeCR if I will ever be able to differentiate between Run Out and Total Indicated Run Out. So I will settle for total plus to minus delta and go for smallest reading overall total.
I did 5 rounds tonight with these total runout numbers
.003
.003
.004
.008
.008
Starting with more ideal brass would in my opinion improve these.
Thanks again.
I have approximately halved the run out from what I was seeing previously.
I do believe I will need to go through and cull brass. Seems an absolute, but I am pleased with the progress thus far.
Up to this point, I had always used the fired brass and after cleaning it, went straight to Collet dies.
This was fine for the first few reloadings but I had noticed accuracy falling off.
Then my relocation out east put things on hold for a bit.
Two things I see that happened different this time around.
I was getting everything set back up and during the holidays I read an old article in Rifle Shooter Magazine by Glen Zediker "A Sizable Matter" and decided to try and partially resize.
So that is the first thing which lead to me not expanding the neck enough due to no expander ball on full length sizer. (Thanks for that catch Flashhole)
Edit..Forgot the second thing....The addition of the Sinclair Concentricity guage to the arsenal.
I did find some error correction in the items Gary told me to try as well. Also lost the ^%#@ spring and had to hunt for it for about 45 minutes.....
I think with some properly vetted brass I can regularly get total run out to less than .003 with regularity based on what I am now seeing. Not sure based on the definition you give MikeCR if I will ever be able to differentiate between Run Out and Total Indicated Run Out. So I will settle for total plus to minus delta and go for smallest reading overall total.
I did 5 rounds tonight with these total runout numbers
.003
.003
.004
.008
.008
Starting with more ideal brass would in my opinion improve these.
Thanks again.
Last edited:
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Count TOTAL, cause that's just what you have.
I work for TIR under 1thou off bullet noses, and at this point the defining parts of it matter no more. I consider my process solid at this point, and I put everything in a box for that barrel to keep it seperate from any other(dies, shellholder, gizzy, bushings, mandrel, etc).
padd54
Well-Known Member
MikeCR, what's a "gizzy" ?
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
by chance are you using the Forster aluminum lock rings on your dies? I don't use them anymore as they fit too tight in the slot, and aluminum will flex under pressure. I use steel Lyman lock rings that are about .005" thinner. To use them you find the depth you want with the sizer. The run the die down solid with the ram against something you know is parrallel (you can use shim stock in a pinch). Now with constant pressure on the ram, loosen the lock screw on the ring and retighten it. You have now squared up the lock ring, and are good to go. This allows the die body to be able to float alittle better, and with the jaws setup a little loose (I run mine very loose) you should see slightly better case to die alignment.
Lastly: I may have missed, but are these numbers run out in the O.D. of the necks? Or a loaded round? If the rounds are loaded, then pull the seater stem and a bullet to see if the tip is bottoming out inside the stem. If it is; they sell a seater stem that is made for the more streamlined bullets. Or you can simply run a small drill in the middle to gain clearence on the nose of the bullet. You only want contact in the area of the ogive.
gary
The rings I try to use most of the time are the Stainless ones I get from Sinclair.
I do not like the aluminum ones. For the rason you mention but also loath the crappy screws that come with them.
All in all they are notr acceptable in my view.
I am getting ready to order the Lyman rings in next day or so as I have several sets of dies I need to set up over the next 4-6 weeks.
The measurements are on loaded rounds, OD.
I have not yet checked the die to see if the bullet tips rest into it well. It was an assumption on my part that the purpose of the seater was to load streamlioned more BC type bullets. That is what I get for assuming.
Good call. Will check that out.
I do not like the aluminum ones. For the rason you mention but also loath the crappy screws that come with them.
All in all they are notr acceptable in my view.
I am getting ready to order the Lyman rings in next day or so as I have several sets of dies I need to set up over the next 4-6 weeks.
The measurements are on loaded rounds, OD.
I have not yet checked the die to see if the bullet tips rest into it well. It was an assumption on my part that the purpose of the seater was to load streamlioned more BC type bullets. That is what I get for assuming.
Good call. Will check that out.
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
the Lyman rings allow the die to float in the slot much better in my opinion. Plus like you said they don't use the junky screw driver slot screws. I found an even better one that was about .032" too wide in a tool catalog. Bought a half dozen, and made a mandrel to grind them true to the threads. (the manufacturer claimed they were true to less than .0005"). Have never used them! By the way the Lyman lock rings are also cheaper than the Forster rings!
gary
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
remember that your seating depth will change a few thousandths as well as the shoulder will end up slightly longer. So you have to make an adjustment. Still not a big deal
gary
