Weight sorting Magnum brass

[boomtube]

"All" of my hunting rifles will shoot under 1/2 MOA and most under 1/4 MOA with the best 4 shooting .031,.054,.077 and .092 groups. (all of these rifles are hunting rifles and weigh 8 to 12lbs).... Why build a custom rifle and feed it junk like the factory ammo."

JC, you touch on a point that makes me curieous; Are you getting those small groups from factory rifles/barrels/stocks/triggers or customs? And are those typical or wallet groups

 

[KQguy]

I have been talking to a world record benchrest shooter(Tom Sarver) on the phone lately,and we got into this discussion about sorting brass.He said after all the years he has been shooting and competing,he has done all the methods of case sorting,and has come to a conclusion that it is a waste of time.He said he gets just as good of results from grabbing a handfull of brass and reloading,than spending hours messing with them trying to find identical matches.I think I am going to take his advise and spend less time fiddling with brass,and more time shooting,to improve my skills..That is just my opinion.

 

[davewilson]

[QUOTE=KQguy; I think I am going to take his advise and spend lss time fiddling with brass,and more time shooting,to improve my skills.

this will be more productive when trying to make gains in accuracy.

 

[Derek M.]

I may just have to stop fiddlin with weighing too if it doesn't do anything. I'm always open to shortcuts!

 

[KQguy]

I have also spent lot's of time sorting brass,using the H2o method,as well as weighing this and that.I have not personally found any benefits when out on the range.I do all the regular necessities of reloading(neck turning,debur flashholes,keeping everything as concentric as possible,etc.),but I have drawn the line when it comes to tossing out 2/3 rds of my brass because it doesn't make a perfect match with another group of brass.Everyone will have their own opinion and experiences,but these are mine.

 

[CAM]

Derek M.

Why worry about what others do?
Load up some that weigh the same and some at the extreme edges (high and low) and test for your self.
I think you could see a change with different brands and maybe even different lots.
I like to keep all things equal if possible, I dont mix brands and try to keep same lot numbers.

After turning necks you see that the brass is not equal around the necks, thats why we turn them. so no two brass is exact even if they weigh the same.

CAM

 

[Derek M.]

Derek M.

Why worry about what others do?
Load up some that weigh the same and some at the extreme edges (high and low) and test for your self.
I think you could see a change with different brands and maybe even different lots.
I like to keep all things equal if possible, I dont mix brands and try to keep same lot numbers.

After turning necks you see that the brass is not equal around the necks, thats why we turn them. so no two brass is exact even if they weigh the same.

CAM

Already ahead of you. I loaded up 30 test rounds for 3 different rifles but I would never mix brass brands for a given load. There is as much as 7 grains difference in the 270 loads and about 5-6 grains in the 7mag and 30.06. I will be testing proven loads in each rifle that have been repeated with wt sorted brass. I'll have to wait until I get back from Canada to do it so I can shoot to 500 yards. We'll see what happens.

 

[CAM]

Derek M.
Great! post up the resaults when you get done testing.
Have FUN in Canada!! hope your hunting!!
CAM

 

[Derek M.]

Derek M.
Great! post up the resaults when you get done testing.
Have FUN in Canada!! hope your hunting!!
CAM

Of course I'm hunting! Going for wolf.

 

[Boss Hoss]

If it makes you feel better then go ahead and do it. The mental part of this sport is just as important as having good equipment.

Bottom line if it will give you more confidence knowing all of the aforementioned then by all means go ahead and weigh them!

 

[Derek M.]

Boss Hoss, since I've already wt sorted a bunch of brass over the years, there's really no need in mixing it. I got an email from a bbl maker/bench shooter just recently and the first thing he said was:

Sorting brass is of limited value

He shot a great 600 one time as an example and he was sort of bragging about how good his ammo was (he sorted the brass), and as it turned out, the great group at 600 yards was his culled rounds. That's about all I needed to read. I'm going to shoot the ones for testing just to get some trigger time in anyway but I think I'm done wt sorting.

I suppose wt sorting has been debatable just like barrel break-in. Is breaking in a bbl really doing any good? I've always done it. I know Speedy recommends it and I respect his opinion. But even some of the great barrel makers say it's a waste of time.

 

[KQguy]

I have limited my brass separation to keeping them separated by lot #'s.The only other thing I do is pull one out if I get an occasional flier,I will then just use that piece of brass for foul shots.I have heard of a few benchrest guys say,if they get an exceptional group,they will label the pieces of brass that came from that group and alway's keep them together.I have never done that method though,I just discard the fliers.

 

[Bart B]

Smallest series of 10-shot groups at 600 yards I know of were all shot with unweighed .308 win. brass (WCC58 [a military headstamp?]) that had a spread of 1.5 grains on an average of about 151 grains. About 10 groups were fired. Groups ranged from about 3/4ths inch to 1-1/2 inches. Cases were full-length sized and fired from a machine rested Hart barreled Winchester M70 in a wood stock. Happened in 1971. One of the medium sized groups was shown in a 1971 issue of the NRA's American Rifleman in an advertisement for Lapua 185-gr. rebated base match bullets which were used in the test.

Almost as good was a test group shown in a late 1991 Handloader magazine story about .308 Win. handloads using new, virgin Winchester brass. Those cases weighed about 170 grains and had a 3 grain spread and no neck turning was done. They even used metered charges of IMR4895 having a charge spread of about 3/10ths grain. Someone grabbed a 20 round box at random then shot 'em in another machine rested Win. 70. All of 'em went inside 2.7 inches . . . at 600 yards.

I think there's stuff more important to handloading good ammo than weighing powder and cases.

 

[J E Custom]

"All" of my hunting rifles will shoot under 1/2 MOA and most under 1/4 MOA with the best 4 shooting .031,.054,.077 and .092 groups. (all of these rifles are hunting rifles and weigh 8 to 12lbs).... Why build a custom rifle and feed it junk like the factory ammo."

JC, you touch on a point that makes me curieous; Are you getting those small groups from factory rifles/barrels/stocks/triggers or customs? And are those typical or wallet groups

Boomtube.

I assume you ment JE if so here is my added comments to this subject.

First, All of my rifles that shoot well are customs built by my self. and all groups can be
duplicated on my good days and these are the best to date on the rifles and loads
that I use.

I have done lots of testing with weight sorting and found the main difference was in
Standard Deviation and extream spread.

I use the ohler 35p crony and depend on it to giv me more than just velocity.

As someone else said do what makes YOU feel good not what others do.

Also I hate to quote only bench rest shooters because they are not the only ones
that can shoot. In my case that was the only smith that I knew when I started so
that was the experanced person to learn from at the time.

I consider my self a better than average shot but there are some people on this site
that are VERY GOOD and they may not weight sort. But I do because I need all the help
I can get and if I can improve SDs and ES by any ammount I will continue to weight sort.

When I use to shoot high power matches I love to hear my competitors talk about short
cuts they took to save time and money because it gave me a better chance to win and
confidence that I had done everthing I could to shoot well.

To me reloading is not a task but a passion and good ammo is as important as a good
rifle. One is no good with out the other.

The choice is yours but no one will talk me out of doing whatever it takes to make the
most accurate ammo I can, and get the most out of my rifles.Because there is a great
satisfaction from taking all of the components of reloading and all of the precision to
make a fine rifle then putting it all together and shooting a tenth of an inch group.

Enough said
J E CUSTOM