weighing, measuring, sorting????

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Guest, Apr 16, 2004.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    For many years now you have heard that to be really accurate at long range you should.

    1. weigh your brass
    2. weigh your bullets
    3. Measure the ogive to begining of the BT
    4. sort bullets according to these criteria

    well.... I have thought this too... BUT ( ain't there always a but )

    I have posted several targets from 400 to 900 yards and a bit further.. the results are respectable? I think so... well I am here to tell ya I din't do any of the above...before I shot those targets... I even bought a meplat trimmer and didn't use that either....

    so what does this all mean ??? I'm not sure... can anyone here prove that soing all the above actually gives better results?

    For me as of right now, I'm not gonna waste my time doing all that stuff....
     
  2. a.JR

    a.JR Well-Known Member

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    May 28, 2003
    Ric,I see no good reason to change anything if your happy with your results..JR
     
  3. STL_Shooter

    STL_Shooter Well-Known Member

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    Now you've done it... You've gone ahead and thought for yourself, Ric.

    I believe that doing the BR loading and prep does two main things for shooters.

    First, it culls anything wildly different and thus eliminates the worst deviations at either end. Effect: If we judged the wind perfectly and shot like machines, we'd see our worst shots become less so.

    Second, it allows the 100 and 200 yard BR shooters to drop their group size into the 1s. Effect: When the match is won or lost by .002, insane prep criteria matter.

    I understand where you're coming from, but I'm going to continue doing BR load prep because of #1 above, because when I grow up, I want to be able to shoot like a machine. [​IMG]
     
  4. Steve Shelp

    Steve Shelp Well-Known Member

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    May 3, 2001
    Ric,
    I've been a 1000yd BR shooter for years and I have always said and agree with everything said above.
    Many many times I have been asked 1000s of questions about this and that, but I have always said the most impotant thing is finding a good powder, primer, bullet, seating depth, combination first and formost.
    To many times I've seen someone claim they have a grouping problem and want to start using all the "tricks of the trade" to eliminate the problem when it is probably an issue with the original load combo, WIND and/or MIRAGE, or a rifle/shooter issue to begin with. BR tricks are not going to fix those. The tricks will make the "problem" better but it won't fix it. And savings in group size due to the "tricks" are usualy masked inside of the original problem and you won't see them. But mathematically we all know it helps. It's just whether you can see the results with any statisical certainy.

    In BR the loose rule of thumb is:

    Until a HG is shooting 6-7" 10 shot groups in predictable conditions you need to keep working on your load in general. Then once you reach that plateau, then you can start tweaking it with all the tricks. In LG with 5 shot groups that range goes down to 4-5" range.

    But I will go as far to say of the list from Ric above, if you are going to do one thing it would be to measure the base to ogive length variation. That will get rid up/down with a small amount of time and equipment in any rifle at longer ranges.

    Steve

    [ 04-16-2004: Message edited by: Steve Shelp ]
     
  5. Len Backus

    Len Backus Administrator Staff Member

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    I think you guys are making way too much sense with your comments above.

    Good to hear from you, Number 5! Have a good competition season.

    PS: I agree with STL(correction, Steve, although I know STL sorts, too). The base to ogive sorting is easy and makes some difference in accuracy. Being a "let's quantify it" guy...if I had to guess...I would say it takes 1/8 to 1/4 moa off the widest swing in vertical group size.

    Let's say the largest vertical variation over 10 shots saw shots 9 and 10 being 3/4 vertical and all the rest being under 1/2 moa vertical. I think sorting reduces the swing of shots 9 and 10 down to about 1/2 moa with the other 8 shots. That 1/8 to 1/4 moa of vertical could make a difference on a deer at 1K.

    I sort mine using a Stoney Point bullet comparator with one of the "bullet diameter" thingies on each jaw of the caliper...rather than using the bullet's base on one side. It's faster and easier to get a good consistent reading than when trying to decide if the base is square with the caliper jaw.

    [ 04-16-2004: Message edited by: Len Backus ]

    [ 04-16-2004: Message edited by: Len Backus ]
     
  6. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Well-Known Member

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    Ric

    Agree with Steve.

    I weigh brass to within 1 percent. Normally that is more than sufficient to catch any way outside the norm which is what you are really trying to do. Question always remains exactly what changes in weight are you measuring anyway. So unless you have a match grade BR gun not sure it is means a lot for a hunting gun with standard chamber.

    Agree with Steve, the easiest thing to do and measure is base to ogive, particularily with non custom bullets. There are major differences in bullets from same mftr and from lot to lot in many cases.

    BH