Horse43
Well-Known Member
I may have wrote it wrong. Measuring by volume is different than actual weight. I thought it was grains by volume. 120 grains by volume is the same as 84 grains by weight. So they would shoot the same. Clear as mud?
Weighing BH209
- Thread starter rickiesrevenge
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ENCORE
Well-Known Member
Unless it was the very first batch, maybe lot #1, 120grs volume has never equaled 84grs by weight. That's Western's attorneys recommendations.
Not only does 120v equal 84grs, every lot number will be different also. I can't remember the lowest lot# but I believe it may have been #24 or in that area of low 20's, 120grs volume only equaled 74.4grs.
I believe it was mentioned already but, get a top quality volume measure, and measure out 10 or more tubes. Tap if you like to fill the volume measure, just do it the same each time. Then weigh each of the 10 tubes. You'll be surprised! What most do is after weighing all 10 tubes and recording the weights, you average out the 10 by weight and shoot that. Velocity will increase.
Here's a test of lot to lot. Western/Hodgdon says 120grs VOLUME or, 84grs weight. Which one?
EXACT SAME BULLET:
Not only does 120v equal 84grs, every lot number will be different also. I can't remember the lowest lot# but I believe it may have been #24 or in that area of low 20's, 120grs volume only equaled 74.4grs.
I believe it was mentioned already but, get a top quality volume measure, and measure out 10 or more tubes. Tap if you like to fill the volume measure, just do it the same each time. Then weigh each of the 10 tubes. You'll be surprised! What most do is after weighing all 10 tubes and recording the weights, you average out the 10 by weight and shoot that. Velocity will increase.
Here's a test of lot to lot. Western/Hodgdon says 120grs VOLUME or, 84grs weight. Which one?
EXACT SAME BULLET:
Horse43
Well-Known Member
Load Data « Blackhorn 209
Horse43
Well-Known Member
They say 120 volumetric units. I've always thought that was measuring in those tubes you can get to measure the charge. Either way, probably some terminology I'm not saying right. So if you filled the tube up to 120, according to them, it would weigh 84 grains if you weighed it on a scale.
Horse43
Well-Known Member
ENCORE
Well-Known Member
I'm aware of what the site provides. I've shot it since it first became available and can go through 5# of it in less than 3 months. My reloading room has 28#'s of it setting there now.
The Blackhorn tubes and the scales marked on them are WRONG. Nobody should use those marks, and I have no clue why they haven't removed the markings on them before someone gets hurt.
Look over the top chart again. With a quality volume measure, and it set at 120grs, those weights are the average for each lot number. Lots 37 = 94.7grs, 39 = 96.1 and 41 = 96.2grs. All averaged a minimum of 10grs over 84grs.
Yes, 84grs is 84grs WEIGHT.
120grs VOLUME never changes no matter what is put in the volume measure. If you filled the measure with salt, it would weigh a certain amount. Then fill it with lead and the weight changes, however, it's still 120grs volume. Every lot is different because it's an extruded propellant.
Horse43
Well-Known Member
Great info. Glad you put it to bed. I never thought those tubes were wrong and was what they meant by volume measuring.
I am envious of your powder room! I can't believe what they charge for BH209 now, even after dropping the jar 2 oz too!
I am envious of your powder room! I can't believe what they charge for BH209 now, even after dropping the jar 2 oz too!
ENCORE
Well-Known Member
Please excuse the PP video. My volume measure is set to its maximum, 120grs. Now the scale shows 84grs by WEIGHT and when that's put into the volume measure, even without tapping, there's a 1/2" of volume left in the measure.
84grs is definitely on the safe side but, if they also say 120grs volume is safe, one has to decide for themselves.
Note: The propellant in the bottom of the bowl was from previous testing. It is not spilled from the volume measure.
84grs is definitely on the safe side but, if they also say 120grs volume is safe, one has to decide for themselves.
Note: The propellant in the bottom of the bowl was from previous testing. It is not spilled from the volume measure.
cohunt
Well-Known Member
The problem with using volume to measure is the consistency part---- the little marking lines on the side of the bp volume measure aren't exact-- if 10 people set the measure I'd bet each would be a few 10ths off--- but the real issue is with how that measure is loaded with powder-- do you use a funnel? A dispenser? Any type of drop tube? Do you tap or shake the measure after loading? During loading? How many times do you tap it to settle/pack the powder --- if 10 people all loaded by volume-- I'd bet there would be 10 different weights when done.
That's why I load bh209 by weight using a digital scale-- far less discrepancies/differences than by volume.
If you are talking hit an elk at 100 yards-- then a few 10ths isn't going to matter-- but if you are talking about group size on paper or hunting drops at long range than consistency takes over
That's why I load bh209 by weight using a digital scale-- far less discrepancies/differences than by volume.
If you are talking hit an elk at 100 yards-- then a few 10ths isn't going to matter-- but if you are talking about group size on paper or hunting drops at long range than consistency takes over
Horse43
Well-Known Member
That was basically my main point I wanted to say, don't use those rings on the volume tubes they sell to get your charges. ENCORE provided actual proof and experience that they are indeed the wrong way to measure them too. Pick your preferred method after that.
ENCORE
Well-Known Member
A minimum of 10 volume charges, each weighed. Take the average of the 10 and use that WEIGHT. There's your consistency and also your increase in velocity over 84grsW.
IIRC, everyone shooting 1,000yds at the Camp Atterbury match was using Lot#39. You have the option of shooting by weight (84grs) or volume (120grs). Everyone declares volume, and for the reasons I've already posted. All of us were shooting within a tenth of each other.
IIRC, everyone shooting 1,000yds at the Camp Atterbury match was using Lot#39. You have the option of shooting by weight (84grs) or volume (120grs). Everyone declares volume, and for the reasons I've already posted. All of us were shooting within a tenth of each other.
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
ENCORE always seems to be "on the money" when it comes to muzzleloading, so I was interested to try his suggestion re: weighing vs measuring some BH209.
I used my brass volume measurer which has a volume measure limit of 120gr. It has the pivot-aside spout top. I slowly poured the BH209 through a funnel and into the measurer. Once it was full, I gave it 3 light taps on the side for consistency before pivoting the top back into place. As usual, the pivoting top knocked a few kernels off the top to level the charge.
Then I poured the charge into the pan of my RCBS 1500 Chargemaster. Here is what I got with 5 consecutives trials.
1. 90.3
2. 91.0
3. 91.2
4. 90.3
5. 92.3
FWIW - the BH209 was purchased in Sept 2020.
The average charge weighed 91.0gr - I have been using 84gr for some time now thinking that I was using a volumetric 120gr charge. Not sure how the extra 7grs will affect accuracy or velocity but I learned something new today.
Thanks ENCORE
ENCORE
Well-Known Member
Your velocity should increase around 100fps, maybe slightly more.
Thompsonj
Well-Known Member
I dispense BH209 through my chargemaster. I run 70gr by weight, on the volume measure I have it's shows 90gr. Not saying the volume measure is accurate.
