Weatherby Mark V pressure ??????

[300winnie]

I have a .257 Weatherby Magnum in a Mark V Deluxe that I have tried and tried to get to shoot consistently. Just when I think I have things looking promising...it goes to frustration in a hurry. I went shooting last week and a load that showed promise (more than once) went to hell. A load that had been a pretty good load in the past shot like crap. I blamed it on the fouling in the gun (less than 20 rounds) and decided I was done playing this game...the gun was going up for sale to be replaced by something more accurate.

Well, I got to thinking today about the barrel and the barrel channel. From what I understand the Mark V's in wood stocks, the barrel should be free of touching the barrel channel except for the pressure pad towards the end of the forearm. I decided to see what I had going and got a dollar bill and tested for float in front of the pressure pad...looked and felt fine. As expected I was stopped at the pressure pad. I couldn't get anything to go through the gap behind the pressure pad so I unscrewed the barreled action from the stock, inserted my dollar bill and put things back together. I couldn't even wiggle the dollar bill. On top of that I noticed that the bluing is worn on both sides of the barrel from apparently "riding" the stock.

I am guessing that I need to relieve this pressure if I expect things to get better. I have no intention of removing the pressure pad...at least at this point. Am I thinking correctly? If I am, how far back towards the action do I relieve this pressure? Do I go clear back to where the barrel meets the action, or do I stop short (front of the chamber)?

Any ideas and help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

[specweldtom]

300; I have limited experience with factory Wby stocks and barrels, but if it was mine, I would start where I bought it, or call Wby. If it's shooting more than a 1 1/2" 3 shot group with factory ammo, they should take it back. If it will shoot 1 1/2" or better with any factory load, it meets their accuracy guarantee, and they won't help you.

If the factory warranty is unacceptable or unavailable to you, I would Steelbed the action and about 1" in front of the recoil lug (fit a layer of duct tape to the bottom of the lug with a hole for the front action screw). Don't let bedding compound get into the screw hole, it is a blind hole, and will hydraulic the screw before the action is pulled down into position. Free float the rest of the barrel and try it. It will change the rifle. Maybe better, maybe worse. If nothing you shoot through it is acceptable, put enough layers of about 1" wide duct tape in the end of the barrel channel to preload only that spot. Experiment with different thicknesses by adding or taking away tape layers. I don't like pre-loading stocks, but that is an accepted way of settling the little skinny barrels down. If that works, cut away all of the tape except about a 1/8" wide strip front and back across the channel and bed the gap with bedding compound for a permanent preload pad. (BTW, there is another method of pre-loading using the front sling swivel screw spud).
Unfortunately the impact point will probably move around with changes in weather, pressure on the stock on a rest, and as the preload relaxes with time.
If it's still unacceptable, rebarrel it with a heavier barrel contour, and consider a better stock. The Weatherbys are worth spending some money on, and the .257 Wby is a fine cartridge.

Oh yeah, if you have the 2 pc floor metal, the 1 pc is better.

P/M me if you have questions. Tom

 

[Stonewall2]

The Weatherby factory bedding in the wood stock should have a slight clearance - floated from the receiver ring forward to the pressure point. The pressure point should be like a v block -the very bottom and top edges should have a .010 clearance . There should be aproximately 15 lbs up pressure on the barrel- test by putting a piece of cigeratte paper between barrel and stock pressure point. Pull down on front swivel stud with fish scale.
The best way to fix this is by using Fisher scrapers SCRAPERS at Brownells and lampblack -lipstick . You can also use two short sections of wood dowels about 1.5" long to make a sanding tool . Wrap one with sandpaper and attach the other as a handle with two wood screws in a figure 8 .
Seal the wood with some acra glass rubbed in .
You can use a boresighter with the stock supported in a proper padded vise to check that stock is not warped . Back off the front guard screw and watch the reticle move.
You could float that barrel completely but the factory method works very well if the stock is stable.
I've bedded and shot these rifles - I still own a couple . The bottom surface of the recoil lug needs to be bedded to support the front screw.




Glenn

 

[Hired Gun]

The bottom surface of the recoil lug needs to be bedded to support the front screw.

Agreed.

This is almost the most important part to bedding a Weatherby. I like the lug fully bedded tight. If the rifle were mine I would try the barrel floated. I had an old German in 300WBY with the number one contour and it shot a .291 floated. It's easy to put it back if need be.

Keep in mind, if you alter the stock, the factory accuracy guarantee is off unless you let them sell you a new stock. They are very expensive. Mine all shoot easy better than the guarantee so I floated and bedded mione and now they work better.

 

[specweldtom]

300; I agree with stonewall and hired gun about needing to bed the bottom of the Wby recoil lug, but only if the stock has pillar blocks, or if you don't bed the front of the receiver and some of the barrel. In either of those cases, the bottom of the lug needs to be bedded. I don't always install pillar blocks, but I do always bed a short distance in front of the receiver, so if I install pillar blocks I don't space the bottom of the lug; otherwise I do. If the action has slothead action screws, I fit new socket head 1/4 - 28 screws and torque them to 65 in/lbs. Overall, this seems to give slightly more consistent point of impact than with the bottom of the lug in contact.

On the question of tip pressure, stonewall provided a lot of good info that I didn't know, but experimenting with varying the pressure has paid off for me when I have had to try tip pressure to settle a buggy whip down. I don't know why Wby uses the two angular contact pads instead of just a simple pad (like Remington for instance), but once I've removed them to try a full-float, I don't put them back that way.

I mostly don't trust 3 shot groups, but if you always plot the 1st shot out of a cold barrel (free-floated), and it consistently goes into the same place, I do trust that. If you can compare 3 first shots out of a cold barrel and they constitute a good group, centered where you want them, you're probably in business. The only reason I say probably is that if it's done out of a rifle with tip pressure, I still don't have 100 percent confidence in it.

This info is mostly my opinion, clouded and confused by results.

Good thread, good discussion. Tom

 

[Stonewall2]

I phoned Weatherby over twenty years ago on the fore end pressure question . I was told that they used 12 -15 lbs. -the higher # on the larger Mk V calibers.
One .240 with a #1 barrel that I bedded for a Br shooter shot 5-5 shot averaging .420 at 100 yards in a hunter match 6 X scope . This was with the barrel bedded for aprox 2" forward of the receiver ring and floated the rest of the way.
I had a 7mm #2 contour barrel Mk V that would shoot .3 for 5 at 100 yds. (160 Nosler factory loads ) after I cleared the top edges of the barrel channel by .010 + . That's all the bedding work required on that rifle. Unfortunately I lent this rifle to a friend for two days hunting and it came back with rust in the barrel - I hope that I learned something from that !!
The point is that both methods work well done properly .
A point that most forget is mounting the scope in a stress free manner after the bedding work is done. You can screw up a excellent bedding job this way.........
I torque the front screw at 40 in/lb -back screw 25 in /lb. I check this with a dial indicator after I bed the rifle.
Another point -when bedding under the barrel shank mask the barrel .010 for aprox .3 below the stock line parallel to the top edge of the stock . This allows it to heat up and prevents POI change -flyers. It also lets the barreled action drop free when the screws are removed-easy to check bedding with dial indicator.
The ppressure point should have a V cut thru the center so that it is not bouncing on a center point and not returing to the same place after each shot-think V blocks. Even with epoxy I leave a small strip down the center masked. I read this first in Mike Walkers comments about Rem 700 bedding in Gun Digest years ago. He said then to slightly relieve the center of the pressure pad .


Glenn

 

[300winnie]

Thank you all for your input. I decided to try a different route and ordered a Fibermark stock from Weatherby to put on this gun.

So, now I have some more questions. I am told by the tech at Weatherby that the stock will have pillars and a pressure point in the foreend.

He also said that I should just be able to drop the barreled action in and go shooting once I tighten the screws to 55 inch pounds.

Is this true, or do I need to be planning on doing some bedding of the action, and if so, how much.

Really new at this as I'm sure you can tell.

Also, if I have to bed some of this stock, what bedding compounds should I be looking for to get a good job done.

Thanks.

 

[Stonewall2]

" In Theory " you should be able to just drop this on . Another option would be to change that order to a Accu mark style stock . I have not worked with the newer Fibermark stocks yet but I thought that the AccuMark 30-378 style stocks would be fine after bedding the action with aircraft epoxy . Just an observation .

No matter which stock you end up with please post when you get it. I always like to hear "the end of the story".
Glenn

 

[specweldtom]

300; if you do bed the rifle into the fibermark, I recommend Brownells Steelbed. With no dye mixed in, it will come out a medium gray color. Takes about a week to get full cure, but can be worked after 6-8 hrs. Doesn't drip or run all over everything, either. If the stock is brown, it's hard to get any kind of a color match. If it has to be brown, I use Accraglas Gel.
No matter what you decide on the recoil lug, remember not to get bedding in that hole. I use a headless 1/4"-28 screwed into the hole and pushed down through the bedding compound, then clamp the action or pull the headless bolt and replace it with a bedding screw or an action screw. When you clean up the stock, be sure and clean out the pillar holes so that only the recoil lug takes recoil, not the action screws.

Let us know how it goes. Tom

 

[Love a Weatherby]

Sir what was happening your barrel was shifting on the pressure point hen you fired it it was whipping, back aND forth mostly because it didn't have a good tight bed in the recoil lug area , the easiest fix is if you don't know how to handle bed , have weatherby remedy it for you and shoot it , or send it west hunt stocks have jim Clark remote wood and float it , it could be the stock is cracked inside some where they will do it the older rifles did from West. German not always but I've saw some that did , another thing you may have a rifle that has 1.12 inch twist in the 257 87, gr and 180gr ammo is what it will shoot best ,

I have a .257 Weatherby Magnum in a Mark V Deluxe that I have tried and tried to get to shoot consistently. Just when I think I have things looking promising...it goes to frustration in a hurry. I went shooting last week and a load that showed promise (more than once) went to hell. A load that had been a pretty good load in the past shot like crap. I blamed it on the fouling in the gun (less than 20 rounds) and decided I was done playing this game...the gun was going up for sale to be replaced by something more accurate.

Well, I got to thinking today about the barrel and the barrel channel. From what I understand the Mark V's in wood stocks, the barrel should be free of touching the barrel channel except for the pressure pad towards the end of the forearm. I decided to see what I had going and got a dollar bill and tested for float in front of the pressure pad...looked and felt fine. As expected I was stopped at the pressure pad. I couldn't get anything to go through the gap behind the pressure pad so I unscrewed the barreled action from the stock, inserted my dollar bill and put things back together. I couldn't even wiggle the dollar bill. On top of that I noticed that the bluing is worn on both sides of the barrel from apparently "riding" the stock.

I am guessing that I need to relieve this pressure if I expect things to get better. I have no intention of removing the pressure pad...at least at this point. Am I thinking correctly? If I am, how far back towards the action do I relieve this pressure? Do I go clear back to where the barrel meets the action, or do I stop short (front of the chamber)?

Any ideas and help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Dosh]

?

 

[tobnpr]

I've never built a rifle where the barrel wasn't floated (I bed the barrel cylinder on long, heavy barrels), nor do I know of anyone that builds rifles with pressure points for the barrel. Think I owned an M700 VTR that had one years ago. Never understood it, I want the barrel to freely resonate. There's many areas of respectable disagreement when it comes to the "best" way to build a precision rifle- but free-floating barrels has never been one of them.

I'd love to see the testing (apparently) that prompted Wby to do this.

 

[Paztec24]

I have a .257 Weatherby Magnum in a Mark V Deluxe that I have tried and tried to get to shoot consistently. Just when I think I have things looking promising...it goes to frustration in a hurry. I went shooting last week and a load that showed promise (more than once) went to hell. A load that had been a pretty good load in the past shot like crap. I blamed it on the fouling in the gun (less than 20 rounds) and decided I was done playing this game...the gun was going up for sale to be replaced by something more accurate.

Well, I got to thinking today about the barrel and the barrel channel. From what I understand the Mark V's in wood stocks, the barrel should be free of touching the barrel channel except for the pressure pad towards the end of the forearm. I decided to see what I had going and got a dollar bill and tested for float in front of the pressure pad...looked and felt fine. As expected I was stopped at the pressure pad. I couldn't get anything to go through the gap behind the pressure pad so I unscrewed the barreled action from the stock, inserted my dollar bill and put things back together. I couldn't even wiggle the dollar bill. On top of that I noticed that the bluing is worn on both sides of the barrel from apparently "riding" the stock.

I am guessing that I need to relieve this pressure if I expect things to get better. I have no intention of removing the pressure pad...at least at this point. Am I thinking correctly? If I am, how far back towards the action do I relieve this pressure? Do I go clear back to where the barrel meets the action, or do I stop short (front of the chamber)?

Any ideas and help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

I bought a brand new Weatherby Mark V and 2 minutes after getting home noticed it was rubbing on left side of stock. I called Weatherby and a real person answered within 3 rings. He had me try a few things… they didn't work. So I sent him pictures and he had an RMA and prepaid shipping label to me in 5 min. 3 weeks later my gun came back and was perfect. Dollar bill all the way down to receiver and evenly spaced throughout. Their customer service is awesome.
That being said - read their MOA guarantee. If I remember right, it's $65 to send it back because they clean it and bore scope it before testing the MOA. Then they use the most advanced firing system to check MOA. If it shoots MOA in a windless tube, with a machine firing it, they charge about $200. So before you send it in for MOA testing, BE SURE you have shot 3 perfect cold bore shots.