Washington State Gray Wolf Management...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jmden, Oct 20, 2010.

  1. jmden

    jmden Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,725
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2003
    If any of you Washingtonians get the RMEF 'Bugle', you'll see an article in there about Washington State and Gray wolves. There appears to be 3 established packs, acc'd to the state.

    The Management Plan (yet to be finialized) is currently calling for a minimum of 15 breeding pairs in the state. Washington has roughly half the elk popluation of ID, OR and WY and 40% of what MT has.

    Yet, Washington is calling for the same number of breeding pairs of wolves as is ID and MT!!

    OR recently settled on a much more reasonable 7 breeding pairs--Yet they have 2x the elk WA does! ...and WA wants 15 breeding pairs? There won't be an elk left to hunt.

    During the public comment time this summer WDFW received over 50K 'canned' form emails from 'Defenders of Wildlife' disciples. I wonder if they would 'defend' the elk?

    Edit: http://www.defenders.org/ The Gray wolf--their biggest reasons for contributions--follow the money.

    You can sign up for email updates on this issue from WDFW here: Gray Wolf Mailing List | Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2010
  2. jmden

    jmden Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,725
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2003
    Just got a call from WDFW admin. They say even thought the public comment period is over to send emails regarding this issue to commission@dfw.wa.gov

    Since I don't think Governor Gregoire is going to do what ID Governor Otter just did, us Washingtonians had better apply some pressure to the WDFW and Governor Gregoire. Contact Gregoire here: Contact Governor Gregoire
     
  3. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,898
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Man, that's not good at all. Unfortunately game management is controlled by King county voting, I was one of the last Wa state certified trappers before they voted to take that management tool away form the state. I don't see how an elk herd would survive the wolves in the Blues, I would think that they would get wiped out fast there, anywhere else they are so bunched up in the winter that the wolves will hit the winter feeding grounds like an elk buffet.
     
  4. jmden

    jmden Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,725
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2003

    Exactly...

    Folks, we have got to put some serious pressure on our politicians, and very soon, or there may much less of a reason to have a longrangehunting.com, for instance.

    Jon
     
  5. Scot E

    Scot E Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,312
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    Makes me sick to my stomach thinking about you Washington Staters just getting started in this mess. Takes me back to the beginnings of our mess in Idaho. And what a mess it is.

    This is another example of how same minded folks, regardless of locale, need to learn to work together in a united way to keep stuff like this from happening. I guraantee you that very few of the 50k of e-mails from Defenders of Wildlife (what a bogus Name) were from WA State. Yet hunters and sportsman can't get folks in their own states, let alone surrounding states, to ban together to support a worthy cause.

    Liberal politically minded folks and Greenie's have it figured out. They can mobilize incredibly quickly and efficiently. This is the one area that we should emulate if we want to have a chance to withstand the barrage that is coming.

    I will be sending an e-mail.
     
  6. jmden

    jmden Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,725
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2003
    Thanks, Scot E. Your experience SHOULD BE instructive to all, but...

    Let's no forget that the NRA has made it VERY EASY to contact our president, and federal, state and local politicians by going to: http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/officials/

    Here is a copy of the letter I wrote to the WDFW Commission and (mod. a bit) to Governor Gregoire if that is helpful to anyone for their own ideas:

    Dear WDFW Commission,

    I hope you all are doing well and thank you for your service to this state.

    I just received the latest issue of ‘Bugle’, the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation journal and am shocked at what I see regarding the current recommendation for wolf management in Washington State!

    I am writing to ask you to direct the WDFW to substantially reduce it's current recommendation of 15 breeding pairs of gray wolves in Washington state to 4 pair or less. Washington has less than half the elk that Montana and Idaho have, yet the current management plan minimum calls for the same number of breeding pairs of wolves as those states have! Oregon, which also has about 2x the elk we have recently settled on 7 breeding pairs as a management objective--yet they have 2x the number of elk that we do!! By that reasoning, Washington shouldn't be asking for more than 3-4 breeding pairs! Where is the ecological wisdom and science in asking for 15 breeding pairs in Washington State! That is completely irresponsible at best!

    At least follow Oregon's lead and let's be reasonable here! We will voluntarily destroy an elk herd that has taken many decades to produce if this current plan remains in place.

    I would wish Washington would follow Idaho Governor Otter's lead and tell the feds that the WDFW will not partake in wolf management whatsoever.

    At this point, after a blatant abuse of the ESA, the feds, by using taxpayer and hunter (ironic) money to force a non-native subspecies of wolf down our throats, even after the initial goals or the reintroduction have been met many times over, radical environmental groups are continuing, against their initial word, (they are making huge amounts of money from largely uneducated donors due to the wolf issue) are keeping this issue in the courts and we have judges managing wolves in the west (very incorrectly) vs. biologists (Ed Bangs-who has managed the whole reintroduction from the start) who say that it is well past time to delist.

    It is money from taxes (Pittman-Robertson, among others) and license fees levied on firearms and hunters over the last century that has brought us the current abundance of almost all forms of wildlife today. Sportsman hunting, under the system the US has today has the best track record to restoring depleted wildlife populations than any other system in the world. An overabundance of wolves will seriously change the balance of this system as there will be much less revenue brought in as the hunting opportunities diminish and hunters decide not to hunt due to wolf predation. Wildlife as a whole will suffer as a result due to less revenue.

    I can't help but wonder if many radical anti-gun groups are very much behind wolf reintroduction to try and reduce the number of hunters and potentially the number of guns--another completely uneducated, naive and misguided process of thinking.

    I would encourage you to spend a few minutes researching what wolves really do to elk and deer and their respective populations at Home. Far from just eating what they 'need', wolf packs become wanton killers that waste a tremendous number of elk and deer. There are numerous accounts of cow elk being killed (evidence at Home) and their baby elk being ripped out of them and eaten while the mother is still alive--then the mother is left for dead and not touched. A pack of wolves is similar to a gang in this regard. The general public just does not and has not been given the reality of what wolves do. Talk to folks that go to Yellowstone now and don't see elk or moose at all anymore--once very common.

    We have got to stand up for the ungulates as well! You can’t, in good faith, conscience or science, just be an advocate for the wolf--that is misguided ecology at best!

    Thank you for taking the time to read this.

    Regards,
     
  7. Scot E

    Scot E Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,312
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    Great Letter.

    My point however wasn't that it needs to be made easier to contact our politicians and those involved in decision making but that we need to do a better job of organizing those who need to make contact.

    I have watched closely on how these environmental groups work and can guarantee that there were only a handful of e-mails sent out to the ground troups for defenders of wildlife, interestingly which are moslty single, white females if you look at the statistics, and there were immediately 50k e-mails sent off. That is the kind of organization and efficiency i was talking about if we have a shot of matching these green groups at their own game. 100 or so e-mails from good guys on this forum isn't going to cut it. Efficient organization is what is needed.
     
  8. Russ Hatch

    Russ Hatch Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    241
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2008
    Washington State isn't the only one that has to worry. The greenies and the Feds want to re-establish the wolf in its previous range which is,( wait for it) just about the whole US of A. My home state does not have elk, just deer and live stock, lots of live stock.
     
  9. jasonprox700

    jasonprox700 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    227
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    I hear ya. I'm north east of you in west central Wisconsin. In our county alone, we have had 4 dogs killed (pets, not hunting dogs) and 2 more injured (1 pet, another a pointer) by wolves. The Wisconsin DNR has decimated the deer herd in most areas of the state leaving the wolves with less to eat. The elk herd that was re-established in northern Wisconsin has been hit hard by the packs. I may be mistaken, by I believe we were scheduled to have an elk hunt but the wolves halted their recovery, and in fact reversed it.

    I know very few people in the area who have not seen wolves or been affected by them. A coworker lost one of his bear/coon hounds, pet, and "best friend" last year to wolves while running bears. The next week, another guy in his hunting group lost one of his also in the same area.

    Take a look at the deer numbers (not the #'s the DNR puts out, but the #'s sportsman claim). Then take factor in the booming coyote, wolf, and bear population along with the occasional cougar. Eventually, wolves will turn to livestock and humans because there is not enough natural prey for them.

    History repeats itself. There is a reason the pioneers tried to rid the land of them. Eventually, our government will figure out the same thing once enough livestock, pets, and humans have been attacked or killed.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not against wolves, but I am against over population of them and no management programs!
     
  10. ol mike

    ol mike Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,161
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    I just sent an informative email to them.
     
  11. Scot E

    Scot E Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,312
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    I just watched a short documentary on public television, no doubt funded by liberal organizations, on the first discovered wolf pack in Wa St. You would have thought that they found gold they were so excited! I wonder how the ranchers will feel?
     
  12. jmden

    jmden Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,725
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2003
    Did you get the name of the program?
     
  13. Scot E

    Scot E Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,312
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    I went back to find it and can't find the whole thing. Part of it has been consolidated here. If i find the rest of it I will post it.

    North Cascades | KCTS 9 Specials | PBS Video
     
  14. dook

    dook Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    45
    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    The introduced Canadian wolves in Western Montana have pretty well decimated the elk populations. The harvest is less than 10% of what it was before the wolves. In 5 years there will be no more elk in Montana.

    200 years ago there were no elk in the mountains, they ranged in the plains. After our ancestors wisely exterminated the wolves, sportsmen introduced the elk in the Rockies, which was an overwhelming success, and the elk did no harm to the environment.

    In the 80's there were fantastic elk populations and everyone who wanted meat had it in their freezer, plus outfitters made money from out-of-state hunters. It was win-win.

    The feds could not stand the idea of gun toting self reliant people filling their freezers for free so they started the:

    FEEP. That stands for "Federal Elk Extermination Program". (that's what I call it anyway).

    The feds had all the information at their disposal and knew that no elk could survive the wolves in the Rockies because elk and wolves had never co-existed in the mountains before and elk needed sight distance to defend themselves from wolf packs. They knew the introduction of Canadian wolves would decimate the elk and did not disclose this. They also did not disclose that the wolves were diseased with "hydatid". This was a closed door decision.

    We have been deceived, folks.

    It will be easier to implement gun confiscation after hunting is no longer an American tradition.

    Everything is going just as planned!