Walking or light rifle... elk at 600 yards

[trebark]

Gonna have to throw a little wrench into the works here....

Consider the big 7's....7wsm, 7RUM....heavy bullets, awesome BCs.

The 7RUM with 180VLD with a BC of .659 @ 3100fps has 1800fps and 1300lbs of energy at 1k.

Tough to beat those numbers.

 

[sp6x6]

ALAN What IOR SCOPE YR. AND MODEL, been looking at 3-18x42, pros-cons

 

[4th_point]

Thanks for the ideas and photos guys. So many good suggestions.

This is not an easy decision! You guys have brought up some good points about recoil levels and overall rifle weight. I was leaning towards a 338 Win Mag with 225gr bullets, but I'd like to keep the weight under 8 pounds scoped. My 300 WSM was 8 pounds scoped and it felt like an anchor after a day of hiking in the hills. Recoil with this rifle was not a problem with factory 180gr ammo, but 225 gr bullets from a 338 would be worse. I need to run some numbers on recoil energy.

Beside recoil, Alan brings up a good point about accuracy with a lightweight rig. I'm not sure how accurate I would be shooting a lightweight 338 Win Mag. Free recoil, or tight against the shoulder? I didn't hold the 300 WSM too tight, but I'd imagine that letting a 338 free recoil could be painful. I don't want a brake for this rifle.

Another thing to consider are the high BC bullets in .30 cal and 7mm like some of you have mentioned. These might extend the range beyond 600 yards if the rifle and shooter are accurate.

Another monkey wrench is the 210gr Scirocco from a 338 Federal. This combo should have 1800 to 1900 fps at 500 yards from a 5 pound Kimber. I'd have 100 yards less range, but save 2 pounds in rifle weight. But counting on the Kimber to shoot the Scirocco, or any bullet accurately at this distance seems like a crap shoot.

Based on JE Customs last post, I've thought about my requirements some more.

1. Animal: up to elk
2. Range: 600 yards (more is better if still accurate)
3. Terrain: from flatlands to canyons. Glassing right next to the truck or 12 mile hikes in the mountains, hills, and breaks.
4. Ammo: will load my own.
5. Recoil: 8 pound scoped 300 WSM with 180gr factory ammo was no problem with Limbsaver. I don't know how high I can tolerate though. The 300 WSM was the hardest recoiling rifle I have owned, but I could shoot it well.
6. Barrel life: I like to shoot alot! I could shoot 40 rounds in the 300 WSM in one session easily. Cost of factory ammo (didn't have a press then) kept me from shooting more, not pain. Given that, I'd like something with decent barrel life or another Savage so that I can just install the barrels myself.
7. Future purchases: probably none in the immediate future after this purchase due to family growth. But I'd like a 338 RUM at some point.

 

[trebark]

1. Animal: up to elk
2. Range: 600 yards (more is better if still accurate)
3. Terrain: from flatlands to canyons. Glassing right next to the truck or 12 mile hikes in the mountains, hills, and breaks.
4. Ammo: will load my own.
5. Recoil: 8 pound scoped 300 WSM with 180gr factory ammo was no problem with Limbsaver. I don't know how high I can tolerate though. The 300 WSM was the hardest recoiling rifle I have owned, but I could shoot it well.
6. Barrel life: I like to shoot alot! I could shoot 40 rounds in the 300 WSM in one session easily. Cost of factory ammo (didn't have a press then) kept me from shooting more, not pain. Given that, I'd like something with decent barrel life or another Savage so that I can just install the barrels myself.
7. Future purchases: probably none in the immediate future after this purchase due to family growth. But I'd like a 338 RUM at some point.

7RUM fits the bill! You could build one similar to my .280 (except a Savage action). At 9lbs it's a bit heavier than you planned, but it will shoot any distance from up close and personal to 1k.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f53/my-280-updated-32771/

 

[Moman]

It sounds to me like you're describing the 300 WSM you sold.

 

[bigngreen]

I was contemplating a good walking LRH rig this year as I was hauling around the 12.5 lb rifle. I came up with a Savage short action with a ABS .338 barrel 26in long, chambered in a 338-300 WSM. I think one could leave it in the Accustock but I don't know, I also think a NXS 2.5-10x32 would be the optic of choice. Should make a mountain rifle with LR capabilities. I know the 338 win is equal but the gun junkie in me wants the WSM version and a Savage short action. The Savage 338 win is 7.15 lbs stock so I'm thinking the ABS barrel will cut the weight back enough to mount the NSX and hopfully be around or under 8lbs.
I also envisioned this on a specialty pistol platform
Anything with RUM behind it hurts me without a brake and I can't shoot it accurately enough so for me that would be out.
I think there is a thread on here of Shawn Carlocks sheep hunter rifle also

 

[Alan Griffith]

ALAN What IOR SCOPE YR. AND MODEL, been looking at 3-18x42, pros-cons

SP6x6,

I believe it was July 2006 when it fell apart. It was the 3-18x42. IOR replaced it without a problem but I didn't dare try another one. I hear great things about them but didn't want to try it again. Now that I'm into a NF, their is no looking back. Good luck!

Alan

 

[4th_point]

It sounds to me like you're describing the 300 WSM you sold.

I think you're right! When I bought the WSM I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. But now that its gone I don't miss it and if I went with another 300 I'd like to try 200 to 210 gr bullets. Seems like the Win Mag would be better for these heavier bullets. But the action would be a few ounces heavier I suppose.

I've been an archery hunter so I don't have any experience with bullets and flesh. I've always thought that heavier is better, especially with handguns. When I started shooting rifles I got into the faster is better camp, but now I llike the idea of heavier bullets especially if something goes wrong and a bullet intended for lungs finds its way into the shoulders. At these distances the bullet takes 1/2 to 1 second to get to the target and the animal could move. Maybe I am over-analyzing?

Guys seem to have great success with bullets lighter than 180gr at medium ranges and I can appreciate the 180gr bullets with super high BC in .30 cal and 7mm. They have high muzzle velocites, but the high retained velocity is what impresses me. Maybe this makes up for less bullet mass?

I usually move pretty fast once I make up my mind, but that's the hard part right now. I just need to pick a bullet, then a case to drive it, and build the rifle. I've learned from my other hobbies that sometimes you need to live with something a little while before you know if it works or not. Sometimes internet research, talking, and thinking only go so far. I've gotten to the point where I'll sell things if I find that they don't do what I want rather than live with them. Selling a bolt action generally means a pretty good loss financially though so I need to catious with this one. I suppose that it would be cheaper than that... just rebarrel so its really not as risky as I think assuming I have the right size action.

180 (wsm) vs 200 (300 win) vs 225 (338 win)

I'll let you guys know what I decide...

 

[3006savage]

[When I started shooting rifles I got into the faster is better camp, but now I llike the idea of heavier bullets especially if something goes wrong and a bullet intended for lungs finds its way into the shoulders./HTML]
 
Over all you certainly seem to be on the right track. I would however consider bullet construction ahead of bullet weight when it comes to shoulder shots for maximum penetration. I would look to retained weight more than starting weight when evaluating bullet performance on marginal shots (along with the bullets frontal area).
 
I would choose 165/168 grain bullet for example with 90+% weight retention over a 65% weight retention 180 if they have similar frontal expansion when it comes to busting thru a shoulder or on a quartering shot.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

4th point, any of those cartridges would do well for you and as a side note... the 300 WSM is very capable of shooting a 200-210 gr bullet very well. With RL17 my chrony read an average velocity of 2935 with the 210 Bergers. I think the 180 bullets are probably ideal for the WSM although the heavier bullets will arive on target with a little more thump.

Mark

 

[4th_point]

UPDATE...

Hi guys,

Just wanted to let everyone know what I decided in case anyone was curious. I decided to go with a 300 Win Mag. I thought the 338 might have too much recoil for me in a 6.5 lb bare rifle (I've never shot a 338 before), and it seems like the 300 Win Mag might handle 200gr+ bullets better than the 300 WSM (at least with 24" barrels). Since I had such good performance from the Tikka in 300 WSM, I decided to try a blued one in 300 Win Mag. I was worried about barrel life and originally wanted a Savage (mostly because of the barrel nut), but the cost and features of the Tikka won in the end. I'll deal with a worn barrel when I get to it.

It took me awhile since I had to sell some other firearms to make the purchase. Actually, the rifle was the least expensive part. The plan is to do more rifle hunting (normally hunt with a bow), and I needed to upgrade some other equipment as well. The Tikka will be my one-rifle battery for all hunts until I can afford a big 338. With familiy needs growing, it'll probably be awhile before I can buy another rig.

Anyway, I've got an EGW 20 MOA rail, Limbsaver, 208 AMAX, and 200 Accubonds on order. Got 2lbs of Retumbo at home to try out first. I'll use my 6-24x50 Bushnell 4200 Tactical from another rifle that was sold. I also had some extra money leftover from selling my firearms, so I was able to buy more reloading gear, and a pair of 8x30 Swaro binos to go along with my Swaro LRF, and Sandpiper spotting scope. I still need a decent bipod and tripod, and might replace the Sandpiper with an ED-50. We'll see. The money is almost all gone! But, I feel pretty good about the way things have turned out. I don't make a ton of money, so its been a mind numbing challenge to compare needs vs wants.

What seemed like a difficult and expensive journey (buying rifle, scope, LRF, spotter, etc.) has finally become a reality. Now I can focus on reloading, shooting, scouting, and hunting.

Thanks for all the responses and great advice.

Jason

 

[hammertyme]

Congratulations!

I have never owned a bushnell 4200 so do not know what eye relief it has. Be causious working up loads. The bearing surface of the 200 grain 30 caliber bullets are much longer than on the 338. That interprets to recoil.

I still have a couple of heavy hitting rifles and both have Leupold 4" eye relief 6.5 X 20 scopes on them.

Neal

 

[4th_point]

Thanks for the reminder on eye relief Neal. The 4200 is pretty short in that regard and has been my biggest concern using that scope. If need be, I'll replace it with something else but I'm hoping that it'll work out.

 

[winmag]

Congrats