Vortex RZR HD vs. NF NXS

Basically for the extra wieght and esthetics. I don´t quite like how it looks. On the other hand, i don´t think anybody likes to pay for something they don´t think they need.

Don´t get me wrong. I think it´s a very nice scope, but if you offered a non illumited i would definitely look that way. In fact i just bought 2 Vipers.
 
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Still a throw up for me between the new high speed NF or the vortex. I guess the glass would be like comparing MK4 to NF glass. They look identical to my eye until the sun starts to go down. Also although a lot of people gripe about the magnifier on the NF i really like being able the just grab the scope and turn it instead of just having a small ring to turn with a couple of fingers. I was kinda hoping the glass would be up there close with S&B like their rzr spotting scope is suppose to be dang close to the Swarovski.
 
You might be on to something as I don't know of very many people that a illum reticle is that important to. I've never used mine. Obviously in the military/le market this is probably a very important feature though.
 
Still a throw up for me between the new high speed NF or the vortex. I guess the glass would be like comparing MK4 to NF glass. They look identical to my eye until the sun starts to go down. Also although a lot of people gripe about the magnifier on the NF i really like being able the just grab the scope and turn it instead of just having a small ring to turn with a couple of fingers. I was kinda hoping the glass would be up there close with S&B like their rzr spotting scope is suppose to be dang close to the Swarovski.

Your not going to go wrong either way. To me the ffp is the main reason to go w/the Vortex. I guess one could also argue that the warranty on the Vortex is another. I think most people that gripe about ffp scopes have the wrong idea about them and have never used one. For serious tactical or long range hunting I think it's the only way to go.
 
I have never owned a Razor but I own some vipers and have a PST on order. So I am sure the razor is a great option. Like mentioned above the biggest factor in the choice should be FFP or SFP reticle. I have used both and I am for sure a Second FP shooter / hunter. I do not range with a reticle and do not intend to. I shoot a lot past 700 which is where I would choose to draw the line for reticle ranging. Simply not accurate enough and an easy 10% error in target size will calculate to a 10% error in distance which is 100 yards at 1000.

The reason I like the SFP better is, I in no way wish for my reticle to enlarge with the target size as power is cranked up. I prefer a large target picture and a small reticle for a precise point of aim.... "aim small miss small"

The one thing I would really like to see NightForce and Vortex do, is to have a good look at the IOR MP-8 dot reticle and come up with their own version of a very small floating dot, like the MP-8 dot. This is an awesome reticle and it will allow precise shot placement to long distances with a lower power of magnification. I have shot my 2.5~10 x42 IOR to 1180 yards with very good results. I do not feel this would be an easy task with most other reticles.

Thats my 2 cents.

Jeff gun)gun)
 
I have never owned a Razor but I own some vipers and have a PST on order. So I am sure the razor is a great option. Like mentioned above the biggest factor in the choice should be FFP or SFP reticle. I have used both and I am for sure a Second FP shooter / hunter. I do not range with a reticle and do not intend to. I shoot a lot past 700 which is where I would choose to draw the line for reticle ranging. Simply not accurate enough and an easy 10% error in target size will calculate to a 10% error in distance which is 100 yards at 1000.

The reason I like the SFP better is, I in no way wish for my reticle to enlarge with the target size as power is cranked up. I prefer a large target picture and a small reticle for a precise point of aim.... "aim small miss small"

The one thing I would really like to see NightForce and Vortex do, is to have a good look at the IOR MP-8 dot reticle and come up with their own version of a very small floating dot, like the MP-8 dot. This is an awesome reticle and it will allow precise shot placement to long distances with a lower power of magnification. I have shot my 2.5~10 x42 IOR to 1180 yards with very good results. I do not feel this would be an easy task with most other reticles.

Thats my 2 cents.

Jeff gun)gun)

I'm w/you 100% on the reticle ranging issue. I don't use a ffp scope b/c I range w/it. I use b/c I hold my wind. I dial the elevation but never touch the windage knob. Much easier and much faster than dialing both and w/a ffp scope you can do this on any power not just high power. This can be very advantagious in any situation where a shot must be taken quickly.

As far as the aim small miss small; it very true on paper but not so much in the field. If you shot a 5 shot group on a deer w/a ffp vs a rfp scope I don't think you would see any difference in group size. Reason being that you don't have a definate "spot" to aim at. You may feel you pic a spot to aim at, but in reality, you don't pic that exact spot everytime you shoot @ a deer as you do on a paper target.

I agree on the IOR reticle. I've seen one and really liked it. That small dot in the center sure would be nice.
 
This can be very advantagious in any situation where a shot must be taken quickly.

You may feel you pic a spot to aim at, but in reality, you don't pic that exact spot everytime you shoot @ a deer as you do on a paper target.

I dial wind unless it is close... like 500 or so. I am not into hurry up fast long range shots on game. Ha ha.. another old saying comes to mind. "Rather have a slow hit than a fast miss" So this is probably why my method has worked so well for me.

As for the point of aim. I never plan to shoot a group at an animal but I do feel the "larger target smaller reticle" is a valuable thing for my shot placement. I shoot a lot af antelope at long distances. Have taken several over 800 yards. If you have ever shot an antelope you know how hard it is to not ruin a shoulder and still keep from getting in the salad. Just not much room between the shoulder and diaphram. But that nice white corner pattern of hair was put there for a reason. If you center your crsshairs right on the corner, and wait for the goat to be perfectly square to you, all you loose are ribs, and no tossed salad all over your loins and straps. I do not feel this would be as easy at 800 plus with fat cross hairs. Just my personal preferance and it works for me.

Jeff
 
Having seen the guts of the Nightforce, the build quality and testing, I think it will quite literally last forever,like a Rolex watch, but a Rolex on Steroids watch. Not to mention, the extra weight is due to the steel tube...you could probably quite literally drive over it with a HMMWV and it would hold zero and work flawlessly...

All in all an incredible overall package--an incredible value. Currently more than my discretionary budget will allow, but a huge value for the price.


Matt
 
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I have looked through a FFP scope and I have to disagree with the notion that the reticule gets thicker when zoomed in in relationship with the target. When zooming in on the target the target gets larger in the same relationship as the reticule. This cancels out the size difference. :)

joseph
 
I am looking hard at the Razor for many reasons over the NF scope. None of which because I am unhappy with the NF scopes, only that the Vortex offer many things that are not standard on the NF such as zero stop, FFP, +125 moa of vertical adjustment, labeled reticle.

As far as FFP scopes not being useful for shooting past 700 yards, I have to respectfully disagree on that one. I range all my targets with a swaro rangefinder so the reticle is never used for ranging. Anyone that would use a reticle for ranging when we have access to extremely accurate laser rangefinders are just missing the boat on how things should be done.

I have used ballistic reticle holdover for big game hunting out to 1400 yards and it works perfectly well. The trick is to develope your drops in conditions similiar to those that you will be hunting in. BY that I mean, do not develope your drop chart when its 85 degrees out in the middle of the summer if you will be hunting in 40 degree or colder temps during hunting season.

Best time to develope a drop chart for a ballistic reticle is right after big game season when temps are similiar. OR a month or so just before big game season. 10-20 degree temp changes will not result in much difference at all as far as big game hunting out to 1000 yards. Shooter error and wind judgement errors will make much larger differences then this will.

In fact I have developed drop charts and used them year after year and never had any problems at all with changes in environmental conditions shifting point of impact. Now I am not saying it will not change POI, I am saying it will, in nearly all big game hunting situations, not change POI enough to cause you to miss the vital zone of a big game animal. In most cases, you will never know there was a sift in POI as most can not shoot well enough in field conditions to be able to tell this shift.

As far as the reticle getting to big, well, that goes both ways. In fact, it does not get larger in any way, it stays consistant with the target. IF it covers 1/4 moa wide item on 6x, it will cover 1/4 moa at 20x. This in fact is a bonus, ESPECIALLY for a big game hunter. A very fine second focal plane reticle can get very difficult to see in low light. A properly designed FFP reticle does not have this problem. A poorly designed FFP reticle CAN have this problem.

To a more accurate discription of reticles would be the FFP never changes size in relation to the target, the SFP reticle gets smaller as the power is increased in relationship to the target or it gets larger as the power is turned down.

Back to the Razor reticle. IF your using the reticle for hold over shooting, the labeled reticle is VASTLY superior to anything NF has as there is MUCH less likelihood that you will get lost counting down the reference marks to find the correct hold.

If you want to dial up, your looking at nearly 130 moa of vertical adjustment compared to 100 for the best NF offering. Both are plenty but 130 is alot more then 100 meaning that for most of your shooting, you will likely be working closer to the center of the adjustment range of the Vortex then the NF which is always a good thing.

Again, do not get me wrong, I love the NF scopes and they are proven. The Vortex is the new kid on the block but if they are reliable, especially on the larger calibers and when used with muzzle brakes, they will be a steal with the options they offer.

I sit there and think about my 338 Allen Magnum with a 265 gr AT RBBT loaded to 3550 fps with a .920 BC and combine that with a scope that has 130 moa of vertical adjustment......... :D
 
for me up here its a price issue
the razor is in the same category as the S&B ,,,so why compare it to a NF
if u guys are saying the glass is the same or comparable to a NF then i would op for the S&B for that price,......
 
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