VLD 6.5, saboted up to 7 feasible, or even possible?

[Max Heat]

To me, this would be the "ultimate", maybe even call it "magic", bullet. I don't think that it currently exists, but maybe one (or more, if not patented) of the bullet manufacturers ought to consider making it. I've been giving it some thought, and if it CAN be done, I bet it would easily out perform anything else out there (as far as "reasonably sized" bullets go).

Being that the sabot would only need to be .014" thick on the long, high BC 6.5 VLDs, it might be possible to maintain the bullet's native accuracy & stability, or **** close to it, maybe even exceed it!. But it could be pushed waaaaay harder out of a 7, especially the RUM. How does 100gr of powder behind it sound?

It would also be more slippery going down the barrel, resulting in higher velocities at lower pressures, while being easier on the barrel at the same time (no copper fouling, either). And the bullet itself would not get deformed AT ALL, which would probably increase it's accuracy, reduce the wind drift, as well as the spin drift, being that there would be no turbulence-inducing rifling slots cut into it. Not to mention, the significant boost in velocity would reduce the amount of "gravity" drift, let's call it, as well. Can you say: "flat"?

Any bullet manufacturer reps out there have any comments regarding this concept?

 

[SaskShooter]

I don't see any need for a sabot here, why not just neck the 7mm RUM down to 6.5?

 

[Max Heat]

Well, obviously .284 is the lowest caliber that Remington has determined to be feasible, for a 100gr case (like that's not already way overbore?). If THEY didn't take it down to .257, I trust that there is good reason. If they, or any major (non-wildcat) name did offer it, I'm sure I'd be buying one.

But even so, most of the possible gains that I had mentioned would not be possible without the sabot. I believe the primary reason that saboted bullets are not very popular, is because accuracy is forefitted, due to a greater amount of wobble within the barrel. But for a long bullet that is close to the caliber of bore that it is being shot out of, both the thinness of the sabot, as well as the long length of sabot, should contribute greatly to improving the accuracy.

I don't know how high the rifling lands are in the bore, but picture this:

A bullet that JUST fits inside of the rifling lands (to help prevent wobble), with a plastic (exactly what type of plastic, I'm not sure) "jacket" over the copper, being very thick, on the backside, and looking very much like a plastic shotgun wad. When fired, the rifling lands would be what cut the thin sides of the plastic sabot, so that it would open up like the petals of a flower, immediately upon exiting the barrel. The resulting projectile would have a better SD & thereby BC, and be completely smooth around it's diameter, thereby creating no turbulence from the rifling slots, resulting in the gains that I had mentioned.

Does this make sense to anybody?

 

[Nimrodmar10]

Does anyone remember the Remington "Accelerator" bullets besides me? 308, 30-30 and 30-06 with a saboted 55 gr. .224 bullet. Can you say "fast"?

 

[Varminator 911]

My first thought is the accuracy just won't be there and accuracy is more important than a small gain in velocity or BC. That thin of a sabot isn't going to hold up.

Load the 7 RUM up with Berger's new 195 gn bullet and it will make your 6.5 bullet look sickly. The 7 RUM needs a heavy bullet to shoot well. It's not at it's best with your lighter combination. So your only potential advantage is velocity. In terms of killing power, accuracy, downrange energy, and probably wind drift the big Berger will beat anything you could do with a 6.5 sabot.

 

[7stw]

Does anyone remember the Remington "Accelerator" bullets besides me? 308, 30-30 and 30-06 with a saboted 55 gr. .224 bullet. Can you say "fast"?

Yes I do. That probably " dates" us, but, who cares. I had a old Remington 788, in 308 that shot them pretty well. They were popular for quite while, then they went away. Some guns would shoot them, some sprayed them. They were fun at the time. ( then we grew up).

 

[Max Heat]

If I recall correctly, the 30-06 accelerator launched the 55's at 4,000fps. That's exactly the sort of "fast" I want, only with 2 to 3 times as much lead as a 55 grainer. I do recall that the accelerators really sucked, as far as accuracy goes. But they ran .224 through a .308 bore. I believe that the larger the gap that the sabot needs to fill, the worse the accuracy will be. That's why I thought running .257 through a .284 bore would make more sense, accuracy-wise. And it would allow me to stay with same bullet weight, but have better ballistics, for the really long range shots. Granted, a 7mm 195gr VLD WILL outperform a 120 or 140gr 6.5. But it is at the cost of significantly less velocity, and significantly more recoil. Plus, you'd need a custom twist rate to run those. I'm wondering why BR uses 6.5, rather than 7. I think I might want to try BR, but would like to have some kind of advantage going into it. As long as I was firing 6.5mm bullets, I would not violate the regulations, but would have the advantage of velocity (flatness) over everyone else, right?

BTW - There ARE 2 companies that I know of who are currently developing sabots for reloading use. But the reloader will need to purchase a special tool for seating the bullets into the sabots. I think it will be fairly inexpensive though. As far as I know, they will be offering .224 for .308 (naturally), .224 for .284, and several others. I'm hoping that .243 for .284 will be one of them. I'm not holding my breath for a .257 for .284 sabot though.

 

[onzah]

Just a note

6.5 = 0.264
25 caliber is 0.257

 

[lloydsmale]

I fooled a bit with sabots. Mostly in the .30s using .22 bullets. I aquired about 500 sabots one time and went to work trying to develope loads for the 3030 308 and o6. About the best i ever did was 2 inch at a 100 yards. I even played with shooting 44 bullets out of my 500 linebaugh in sabots but again accuracy just wasnt there.

 

[backwoods83]

7mm= .284", 6.5mm= .264" with the 7 having .276" grooves and the 6.5 having .256" grooves, that means putting a sabot of atleast .022" to have any crush effect on the sabot, and a piece of plastic hard enough to withstand that kind of pressure would get squeezed hard enough to engrave the bullet as well so your back at square one. If it is thin enough just to graze the lands then the sabot will be spinning and the bullet will not, and with that said the stability factor would be non exsistent. Sorry, better go back to the drawing board.

 

[britz]

IMHO your asking for something that is not impossible but unlikely.
FYI the sabot for a .308-.224 would be only .042" on each side (not huge). The sabo for a .284 to a ..264 would only be .01"... what material would hold up to this in the 60K pressures that would be developed?

I wouldn't go so far as to say that shooting sabots accurately is impossible (look at the M1A1 Abrams). However, I would say that few of us on this site would be willing to spend the hundreds or thousands per round inorder to produce ammunition that would be that accurate using sabots.

I agree with the above statements that the gain in velocity/BC would be far outweighed by the loss in accuracy.

 

[Max Heat]

I agree 100% that accuracy is the issue that needs to be overcome. It just seems to make sense that a thin plastic peal-off plastic "jacket" would have minimal effect on the accuracy.

If I'm not mistaken, .243s (6mm) are currently under development that will be able to be shot out of 7s and .30s. I think they will be much more accurate than the 22s out of the 7's and .30s. Actually the sabots are being developed/made, along with the tool to install your bullets of choice into them. They ought to be out soon, if not already.

 

[Max Heat]

Just a note

6.5 = 0.264
25 caliber is 0.257

Yea I messed up on that. Thanks for setting things straight.

 

[Aldon]

I thought they removed "Accelerators" and that set up for legal reasons....long time and brain is foggy.

not sure but my theory has to do with the ability to fingerprint the projectile to the firearm if used in a crime would not be possible with a sabot on a rifle bullet.....

Perhaps I am way off base