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SidecarFlip
Well-Known Member
Yep, and I almost missed this one >>> http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/best-6-5-bullet-elk-121196/index2.html#post853957 # 13
It's pretty sad that we have a 14 year old (kudos to Riley) that reads the FAQ and some adults do or perhaps they just ignore it and see how long they can get away with get.
Captain Morgan spiced rum black and and simply orange.
Due dillegence is a wonderful thing. I see his location is U-Tube. Must be hard living in a micro chip.
I fully understand the users agreement, whether I agree or not isn't germane. It's bad enough with all the 'for sale' items and interestingly, if you watch the 'for sale' items closely, some sellers are cleverly disguising themselves as one time sellers when, in fact, they are promotong multiple sales of a specific item..... Another ploy to circumvent the Users Agreement.
People are creatively sneaky...............
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
It's not really a struggle, more of an added expense for the end user. Without raising your hackles, I can't believe that JD or anyone else that has to comply has a smooth road to travel because no matter who the engine builder is, the engines all utilize the fuel to do the same thing.
Most all of this emissions crap is just that. Crap.
What occurs in the on road trucking arena is you, the consumer gets to pay for the added cost of operation in increase freight cost which 'trickles down' to you.
In the ag arena, the government helps out with the farm bill (or at least did)....
I figured you'd chime in when I mentioned JD.
Not to muddy the water but I heard that Kubota meets the Tier 4 standard without DEF. If true or false, I'm sure you know.
Tier 3 honestly was the worst stage and really the issue is isolated to injectors and carbon build up, IT4 has been solid, I can't think of a single emissions related repair to one of them, I've only changed two EGR's since we started seeing them. The higher horse power unit definitely perform better but they see way less idle time and more heavy pulling, if I see issues it's in the 100-180 class engines which around here do haying a cows so there is much more idling and less pulling.
The cost is ridiculous but the after sales cost seems to be very low which is what I have to deal with.
Just so you know I'm a master JD tech but also certified CNH, we actual sell three lines, JD, CNH and Agco parts so we try to sell the best of all brands, if Deere has a certain machine that's a pile hopefully CNH will be strong in it.
Of the Ag companies JD is the last to have to go with DEF and it will be at a very low rate which is good for total fuel economy but hopefully they aren't getting to aggressive mechanically to make it happen.
I think I read that Kabota was compliant without DEF but compliance is based on country of origin and number and HP of engine produced as well, I grew up with a couple Kabotas, the engine was good and it was a clean simple tractor but mechanically they would have issue like any other and there is no service within 3 hrs here so they've all gone away around here with the exception of the small ones, I'd own one in a heart beat over a CNH of that size, I HATE small CNH transmission rebuilding!!!!
SidecarFlip
Well-Known Member
The carbon buildup from the EGR is very detrimental to the intake side as DDEC found out. The big issue it seems is carbon plugging the sensor orfices. You pull the intake runner (on the turbo pressure side) and it looks like crystalized pepper inside.
Cummins has an issue with Turbo failure most likely related to the excess heat. It's said that every 350K or so you change out the turbo before it fails.
Caterpillar had some serious issues trying (in vain) to meet the EPA mandate. We have a slew of C13's and they all last about 450-400 K miles and then they go south. Everything from head gaskets to dropping valves to spinning mains. The C13 is compound turbocharged. The 3406's went to an afterburn (furnace) that injected diesel fuel through an orfice depending on exhaust temperature. The fuel was ignited by a spark plug and that was supposed to burn off the carbon and NOX residue. That was a fiasco.
DDEC went to supercharging behind the turbo via a one way clutch and short PTO shaft off the turbo to build boost past 45 PSI in hopes that the extremely lean burn would meet the mandate. problem was, it was complex and the engines ran so hot, they ate exhaust valves.
It's all a learning experience but at the cost of the end user. What works on paper or on test engines, don't always work on real world application.
I suspect what will occur is what transpired in the 60's with emissions controls on gasoline engines. Back then, you could not see the engine due to the emissions plumbing. Thats all went away as technology caught up. You'll see the same thing in diesels.
I surmised long ago (from another thread) that you were either a dealer or a technician.
I have a very good friend who works at JD in Mannheim, Germany in engineering so he keeps me abreast of what JD is up to for the most part. When he's in the states for seminars at JD, he usually stays a few days here with the wife and I.
JD keeps after me to lease one and I may next year. My Kubota's are getting close to turning over. I may try a utility tractor (FWA with cab) and see how it compares.
My big issue with JD is the way they handle their dealers. We have one independent dealer left in the area (Fred Ott). All the others are multi dealerships.
Just don't tell anyone that DEF is excellent fertilizer...lol
Aside from all that, back when AGCO operated the plant in St. Mary's, Ohio, I used to go there regularly. I think they still use part of the property as a marshalling yard for equipment distribution but no manufactiring. I was astounded by the employees attitudes in that plant. It was.... We are union and we work when we want to and loaf as much as we can. They had the attitude that AGCO needed them. They found out.
Cummins has an issue with Turbo failure most likely related to the excess heat. It's said that every 350K or so you change out the turbo before it fails.
Caterpillar had some serious issues trying (in vain) to meet the EPA mandate. We have a slew of C13's and they all last about 450-400 K miles and then they go south. Everything from head gaskets to dropping valves to spinning mains. The C13 is compound turbocharged. The 3406's went to an afterburn (furnace) that injected diesel fuel through an orfice depending on exhaust temperature. The fuel was ignited by a spark plug and that was supposed to burn off the carbon and NOX residue. That was a fiasco.
DDEC went to supercharging behind the turbo via a one way clutch and short PTO shaft off the turbo to build boost past 45 PSI in hopes that the extremely lean burn would meet the mandate. problem was, it was complex and the engines ran so hot, they ate exhaust valves.
It's all a learning experience but at the cost of the end user. What works on paper or on test engines, don't always work on real world application.
I suspect what will occur is what transpired in the 60's with emissions controls on gasoline engines. Back then, you could not see the engine due to the emissions plumbing. Thats all went away as technology caught up. You'll see the same thing in diesels.
I surmised long ago (from another thread) that you were either a dealer or a technician.
I have a very good friend who works at JD in Mannheim, Germany in engineering so he keeps me abreast of what JD is up to for the most part. When he's in the states for seminars at JD, he usually stays a few days here with the wife and I.
JD keeps after me to lease one and I may next year. My Kubota's are getting close to turning over. I may try a utility tractor (FWA with cab) and see how it compares.
My big issue with JD is the way they handle their dealers. We have one independent dealer left in the area (Fred Ott). All the others are multi dealerships.
Just don't tell anyone that DEF is excellent fertilizer...lol
Aside from all that, back when AGCO operated the plant in St. Mary's, Ohio, I used to go there regularly. I think they still use part of the property as a marshalling yard for equipment distribution but no manufactiring. I was astounded by the employees attitudes in that plant. It was.... We are union and we work when we want to and loaf as much as we can. They had the attitude that AGCO needed them. They found out.
