uso or nf

[thequickad]

All I can say is that after reading all the responses, I WILL NOT be the paying USO tester for them. Let USO prove they can deliver good product, honor their warranty and most importantly - stay in business to honor those much needed warranties. I don't have to worry about Leupold or Zeiss or Swarovski going out of business and can't honor their "lifetime" warranty.

 

[texasjim]

Ya know its always the same people who say the same things over and over wherever you go. You have your USO loyalists and your USO anti's. For those of you who don't go to the sniper forums, this topic (USO) has been debated over and over. Sure there have been some problems with USO, but with my experience and my first hand knowledge, these problems are being addressed and have been addressed, and resolved. There will always be people talking about the scopes which fail, people always remember the bad before the good. I have even had a problem with my USO, but it was repaired within 48hrs. Would I buy another...yep!

To answer the question of NXS vs. USO....I love them both. The USO has better Optics, and the NXS is a great bang for the buck.

Jim

 

[Big John]

I'm sorry you disapprove of my warning others of this company Jim. But nor is this the first time we've heard:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> these problems are being addressed and have been addressed, and resolved. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actualy, we have heard this many times before. Then the next batch is tested, and guess what.... Same old same old. Jim, you have the right to go round the net and post your rose colored views just as much as I have to post and warn of their frequent failures and litigious managers. But that does not change the fact that the accounts listed of USO failures are first hand reports.

You further pointed out ( correctly ) that this has been rehashed many times over on the sniper forums. Earlier in this thread I posted:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> After exchanging a number of Q&A emails with a SP patron ( Urban PD SWAT team member ) who did not have access to a long distance range, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jim, this scope was destined for a duty rifle. Just think about the consequences had it been used on an infamous "Hostage Shot". How many jurors would of believed that the most expensive sniper scope on the market was flawed over the officers plea, "I did everything right, I don't understand why my bullet went into the wrong person". Admittedly, this is www.LongRangeHunting.com and the people here most likely will not be taking any hostage shots. But they do deserve a successful hunt and perhaps more importantly, need to understand that they may be supporting a company who's integrity is very suspect and quality control is of dubious standards. Perhaps because of my background, I'm a bit more sensitive to companies profiteering with substandard products while innocent lives are on the line. Having chosen a career in Corrections, my being taken hostage was a distinct possibility.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> Ya know its always the same people who say the same things over and over wherever you go. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I agree. But you and me are in that same boat here aren't we Jim? We both have the right to express our endorsement or dissatisfaction over any product. But perhaps the veiled threats of a company wishing to gag the mailman with litigation is my motivating factor and your friendship with the Williams' would be yours.

But to those few who are still undecided in this "war", consider this, have you ever noticed how many USO loyalists also reported they too experienced failures? Kudos to USO for fixing them to your knowledge or satisfaction, but we did have an earlier post of a man with the "best scope [USO SN-9] he ever used" but does not have a barrel on his rifle. Such endorsements really don't inspire confidence in their conclusions. Do they?

Finally Jim, I'm not out to change your mind, clearly it's set on this matter as is mine. But this thread was started over a person who's mind was not made up. Why do you fret our telling him of the well known series of failures and lawsuit crazed managers LONG associated with this company? An company who's last official communiqué with SP ( from their lawyers ) claimed that it is ORDINARY for companies to do so:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> Similarly, most
&gt; companies have been forced to sometime file suit against others. Why, one
&gt; must ask, does USO take heat for conducting business in the ordinary
&gt; course but others do not?

Source: http://snipersparadise.com/sniperchat/index.php?showtopic=2568&st=30

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And why is it even the USO loyalist never advocate these actions as a hallmark of a prestigious firm?

If my comments are harsh or condescending, please remember that such language is for no other purpose then to bolster may case, not to offend any patrons of this web site.

Regards,
Big John

 

[DANTEC]

Texas JIM

you write :
Sure there have been some problems with USO, but with my experience and my first hand knowledge,
these problems are being addressed and have been addressed, and resolved.

THAT FALSE even after several call ,mails any thing appear to this company
three scope three big problems and three are still problems and I pass on money and time loose
That sure that now USO have "discover" that I am FRENCH and they doesn t want at all work with people THAT A NICE SHORT CUT TO DON T HONNOR LIFE TIME GARANTY !!AND TO FORGET MONEY LOOSE AND MISS THEIR WORD .

_ There will always be people talking about the scopes which fail, people always remember the bad before the good. I have even had a problem with my USO, but it was repaired within 48hrs. Would I buy another...yep!
WHEN A COMPANY ADVERTISSING THAT THAY ARE THE VERY BEST I DON T THINK THAT LET CUSTOMER IN PROBLEMS IS CLEVER OR EVEN A HONORABLE WAY !AND DONT ANSWER ON FORUM IS NOT A PROOF OF HONNOR ? BECAUSE WHEN CUSTOMERS UNHAPPY MAKE LOT OF NOISE THAT VERY STRANGE THAN USO DOESN T ANSWER !!!!!

To answer the question of NXS vs. USO....I love them both. The USO has better Optics, and the NXS is a great bang for the buck.

BETTER OPTIC TO WATCH THE TARGET BUT NOT TO BE ABLE TO SHOOT THE TARGET .. A RIFLE SCOPE IS NOT:
a HAMMER TO FIX NAIL
a SPOOTING SCOPE

AND I STILL WAIT EXPLAIN FROM NIGHTHAWK :
HOW HE SUCESS TO USE A RIFLE WITHOUT BARREL !!

and last point purchase a 3000$ is not gambling !!!

Godd real shooting

DAN TEC

 

[Nighthawk]

Big John, I didn't really mean to say "the best I've ever used, my only experience with it at this time is though looking though it at long range, My intention for writing that e-mail was to see what responce I got and if what I have heard you guys saying was true or not. I didn't mean to help start a war between everyone about a topic that is based on mostly opinion anyway.

 

[DANTEC]

NIGHHAWK

you write
didn't mean to help start a war between everyone about a topic that is based on mostly opinion anyway.

It seem that "mostly opinion" from your understanding is IN FACT a big loose of money for customer .

I dont know where you have order your barrel ( sss ) but that amazing to sucess to get USO scope before a barrel because barrel delivery time in normaly quite short ( except Mister Obermayer with all my respect for this man )

Good shooting

DAN TEC

 

[Nighthawk]

Dantec, I ordered my barrel from Pac Nor about last September. I have not received by barrel yet because of two things. Pac Nor suggested to me that since the scope, stock, sling was black that they put a black finish on the barrel and action as well. Second is that they (Pac Nor) said they had about 200 barrels to make before they could start mine. That is why I'm still waiting for my barrel.

 

[Brent]

September??? You still don't have the barrel from Pac-Nor yet??? They work faster than that. I'd check and see if something happened, maybe they never got payment??

 

[DANTEC]

I know very well Chriss Dichter PAC NOR owner I dont know what barrel who you order ( 20 mm with 44 inch lenght ....) to get a so long delivery time

and what is final caliber of your dream rifle ..

good shooting

DAN TEC

 

[Big John]

Nighthawk,

You owe me no apology. Your post I've seen were honest and forthright, nor did you attempt to conceal pertinent facts. You most certainly did not start this war as this has been long festering with little change over the years. Also, I appreciate your warning on the upcoming litigation against me and my associates. Hardly surprising though considering the source.

I do hope your SN-9 works out for you - but remember, those who speak ill of the sacred scopes must be damned, Or at least in some peoples opinion.

Regards,
Big John

 

[Big John]

Blaine Wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> My solution was to write a program that allowed me to set the actual click value of my scope and have the output in terms of my turret so I wouldn't be hampered with this deviation. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess I can understand how that would work. But isn't that the wrong way of addressing the problem? Long ago, our Government set forward a Bureau of Weights & Measures to standardize measuring devices. Imagine if we accepted USO's NONSPECIFIC measurements across the board.

One gas stations Gallon may equal to another's Pint.
Every hardware store would have their own 4x8 size of plywood, none the same size as others.
When ordering shoes, you may be a size 4 or perhaps a 36.
An inch could be as short as your thumbnail, or as long as your driveway.

You get the picture.

Now, apparently you have received software engineering training that allows you to write such programs. ( I downloaded the sample program by the way, very nice  you data closely matches my actual dope ) but as for me, I don't have such programming skills. So I rely on known standardized measurements such as inches, meters, gallons or in this case –Minute Of Angle. If USO decides to use their own standard of measurements, then why are they not advertised as USO – MOA, or as noted earlier when comparing mine and your discrepancies, not even consistent between their own scopes?

For the life of me can not see what good a scope with non specific adjustments is! Another example: We are shooting at 625 yards me with my rifle & scope, you with yours. To make the example easy, we'll say both scopes are ¼ moa clicks. Now coincidently, we notice that both out splash is off 3 ½ inches left. As per my training I pull out a sheet of paper or pocket calculator and divide correction needed in inches divided by range in hundreds of yards to acquire correction needed in MOA; 3.5 / 6.25 = 0.56… so I come left two clicks, *bang* Hit on steel. But unless you have you laptop with you, I'd say you're S-O-L. Also, as your spotter, I am completely unable to help you.

USO customers should not have to be able to write special programs just to calculate trajectory adjustments. It's the job of the people at the factory to make sure their product track at the increments they advertise.

Again, I'm not trying to offend anyone, just present my points in the strongest possible terms.

Regards,

Big John

 

[Guest]

I'm going to build a house. I had my choice of tape measures, one was $7, one was $8, another was $8.75. Then they had the Super deluxe tape measure that measures for you and also makes you breakfast - $26.

One problem of the Super Deluxe tape measure is that is incorrectly calibrated. Each inch was actually .92135". So I bought the Super Deluxe anyway and wrote a computer program to correct the measurment differences.

When I posted my results, a bunch of homebuilers loyal to the super deluxe joined in to defend this product, and I GOT SUED!

One guy even defended the product that he never actually used...because he never received his wood! I guess he figures its the best because it cost the most.

I need to write a program to restore my sanity!

 

[Blaine Fields]

Big John,

I think maybe we are seeing different perspectives in approaching the problem. As I said, I want the company to succeed. So while I certainly agree that product problems are legitimate topics of discussion, I've seen some posts on other forums that are incredibly vicious and destructive in their negativity. I choose to come at the problem from the other direction. There are many great things to say about the product. I assume that the powers that be at USO want to correct the problems and are working on them. I assume that they want their scopes to be competitive and are working on the cost aspects as well. So, I see a product that is fundamentally superior with deficiencies to correct, but a product with tremendous potential. And I wish them well as they work on these challenges. Some who contribute to these threads, on the other hand, seem to want to see the company fail. What motivates these folks, I haven't a clue.

I would really like to see an American company produce the finest scopes in the world and I think USO can be that company. But it takes time for any company to "arrive," so to speak. Most of the European scope makers have been making scopes for decades, in some cases for over a century; USO is new on the scene and from what I can see, they are poised to challenge these giants in the optical world. Well, good on 'em.

It is possible to be critical in a supportive way and I would hope that we as a community can move away from the rabid attacks that serve little purpose other than to inflict as much damage as possible and shift instead into positive, healthy criticism. As consumers, we can only benefit from the latter approach. It does not serve our interests to have fewer choices in the marketplace.

 

[DANTEC]

Blaine Fields


I agree with you the facts that

a hight scope maker full US made is a good point
a real custom maker of optic systeme is a good point
real strong scope maker is good thing if that match with hight quality optic

6 year ago I had think to have discover THE CUSTOM MAKER in USA able to do the BEST and try to work with this product but

BAD POINTS are :
un serious company sorry to say you that :
answering to a customer that is order is "LOOSE" is the most unserious anwser they can make specilay with 50% of deposit
do not delivery stample for a show is an unacpetable fact in business .

un honnest company to deliver unquality untested product or product wich not match with order ou specs ( mistake in clics value , worm out parts , msiatke in specs ... ).

un honnest company to mix quotation and SIGNED order and want to keep deposit even without delivery anything !!!...

un serious company and un trust company garanty : I can perfectly understand problems because problem is often humman facts but surely just PAY TOP PRICE without servive or even customer respect and get any come back on garanty even if it is not life time garanty .

Idea of real US custom scope maker is surely good thing and a interesting project but reality with USO is WORTH

good shooting

DAN TEC