upon a closer look

spladi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Messages
111
Location
USA
Well Mr. Cody you are imposing meanings into my original post that are incorrect. I suggest that you read it again or otherwise have another read and explain it to you.
As to bullet placement into the lands is concerned, a common practice is to touch the lands and to seat the VLD type of bullets .010" to .015" into the lands. Granted that this will raise pressure but all else being in proper order is acceptable.
 

MagnumManiac

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
4,195
I would assume that none of you KNOW what caused this.
A few kernels of a different powder, which how it was determined what it actually was is beyond anyone’s capabilities, is not going to fuse a case onto a bolt nose, and neither is a jammed bullet.
There are so many factors that COULD have caused this failure, that to speculate is idiotic.
How do we not know that the load was for ONE bullet weight and another was substituted?
Speculation gets us nowhere.

Cheers.
 

spladi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Messages
111
Location
USA
Different people have different and sometimes better analytical abilities. Thorough checking measuring and weighing can easily resolve any differences in a loaded rounds makeup. Understanding over pressure in a cartridge case is not rocket science although there can be many causes, they are logical in nature and relatively easy to understand. You are incorrect as to your account of a few granules of 4198, What was said was that there were QUITE A FEW granules of a different powder. Your pessimism is quite weakly supported.
 

okie man

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
922
Mixing even a small amount of a faster powder can cause big issues. That is the reason all manuals say,” never mix different powders”, ever
 

pdshooter2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2021
Messages
101
Location
az
Partial education? I'm an NRA Certified teacher of Reloading Practices! If you bother to read the original statement here you'd see that he was shooting a load that he had been shooting in the past with no problems, and that the powder amount was re-measured and affirmed! For this extreme overpressure result, the next logical conclusion would be that the bullet was extended too long, and into the lands! I'd suggest you use your brain before criticizing others! God bless!
JUST WHERE DOES "NEXT LOGICAL CONCLUSION" COME FROM ?
sorry it is just your OPINION with no FACTS.
COME BACK WHEN YOU HAVE FACTS,
you just made my ignore list
 

spladi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Messages
111
Location
USA
Well pdshooter2 nothing was said that he had no problems with the reloads, what was said was that he had reloads , one of which he fired and caused the problem he had. They were of the type that caused the problem. Maybe your reading comprehension skills need a little improvement, glasses maybe too !
 

spladi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Messages
111
Location
USA
Mixing even a small amount of a faster powder can cause big issues. That is the reason all manuals say,” never mix different powders”, ever
My understanding of the results of mixing fast and slow powder is that the faster powder enhances the speed of the burn of a slower powder and thereby causes high pressure, how fast I don't know but enough in this case to cause the case head to flow into every irregularity in the bolt face, ejector bore, extractor groove etc. It's enlightening to have a knowledgeable educated response as to this situation as opposed to all the comments from the folks who seem to have something to prove resulting from poor reading comprehension and their estrangement to the English language.
 

okie man

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
922
My understanding of the results of mixing fast and slow powder is that the faster powder enhances the speed of the burn of a slower powder and thereby causes high pressure, how fast I don't know but enough in this case to cause the case head to flow into every irregularity in the bolt face, ejector bore, extractor groove etc. It's enlightening to have a knowledgeable educated response as to this situation as opposed to all the comments from the folks who seem to have something to prove resulting from poor reading comprehension and their estrangement to the English language.
That’s what I seem too remember from something I read. The fasterpowder speeds up the burn rate over the entire charge. Results were from slight over pressure too catastrophic failure. Believe it was imr 7828 and imr 4198 used in test
 

SSgt G Cody

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2020
Messages
168
Location
Asheville, NC
PDShitr, Thank you for your great wisdom! You're right, mine is an opinion, but that's what was asked for! Rem 700, 270, IMR4350, possibly trickler 4198, several other unfired reloads left. I would assume all reloads were the same, and probably loaded by the shooter, or a friend. The one thing I know of that could probably cause this blown-out case, among other similar reloads, would be for one case to have bullet loaded extra long, jammed into lands, and fired! I saw this condition once before in a 338 WM Win Model 70. Bullet was loaded very long, and forced into lands by bolt, ... then fired! Case base jammed into bolt face, and bolt was very difficult to open! Later magnaflux showed cracks around bolt face! Shooter was very lucky action didn't explode! Next time we need a Sherlock Holmes to solve our quest for truth on any ballistic issue, it's good to know we can call on your trusted judgement!
 

spladi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Messages
111
Location
USA
That’s what I seem too remember from something I read. The faster powder speeds up the burn rate over the entire charge. Results were from slight over pressure too catastrophic failure. Believe it was imr 7828 and imr 4198 used in test
Yes, because the mix was not thoroughly blended together it made one round seem okay then another round caused the high pressure, at the gun shop the owner of the shop unloaded one of the reloads and it was practically all 4198, thank God it wasn't fired, by the way I have alerted the Man who did the reloading to this issue .
 

Rich Coyle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2013
Messages
4,799
Location
Grants Pass, Oregon
Mixing even a small amount of a faster powder can cause big issues. That is the reason all manuals say,” never mix different powders”, ever

I will actually speak from experience. Way back in the day before internet I used to make "duplex" loads. I discovered unless the faster powder is against the primer there is no increase in velocity. I have no idea what the pressures were, but I still use that rifle with modern powders without duplexing the powders.
 

spladi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Messages
111
Location
USA
I will actually speak from experience. Way back in the day before internet I used to make "duplex" loads. I discovered unless the faster powder is against the primer there is no increase in velocity. I have no idea what the pressures were, but I still use that rifle with modern powders without duplexing the powders.
I don't know what the pressure rating is on say a 700 but it must be very very high plus the added three rings of protection help insure the shooters protection in the event of an accidental over pressure situation. I heard of mixing many years ago when I was a young'n, never did and glad you stopped it.
I don't need any facts to agree with you on the location of a faster powder near or far from the primer flame, just makes common sense like many other simple evaluations we who are blessed to be able to determine.
 

asd9055

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2013
Messages
1,611
Location
Texas
PDShitr, Thank you for your great wisdom! You're right, mine is an opinion, but that's what was asked for! Rem 700, 270, IMR4350, possibly trickler 4198, several other unfired reloads left. I would assume all reloads were the same, and probably loaded by the shooter, or a friend. The one thing I know of that could probably cause this blown-out case, among other similar reloads, would be for one case to have bullet loaded extra long, jammed into lands, and fired! I saw this condition once before in a 338 WM Win Model 70. Bullet was loaded very long, and forced into lands by bolt, ... then fired! Case base jammed into bolt face, and bolt was very difficult to open! Later magnaflux showed cracks around bolt face! Shooter was very lucky action didn't explode! Next time we need a Sherlock Holmes to solve our quest for truth on any ballistic issue, it's good to know we can call on your trusted judgement!
It can also happen if the bullet is loaded deeper in the case...only takes a few thousands deeper to overpressure
 
Top