Trying to make sense of things

[nmbarta]

Reading through some of the threads here got me thinking. Everyone has an opinion on what's going on, but very few of us seem to be able to provide much for facts. This leads to confusion, emotion, and sometimes even disrespect. This can be caused by something as simple as asking a question.

So I have a couple questions. It's a hypothetical situation meant to do nothing other than be thought provoking. I'm obviously bored today.

It's cold, roads are icy, visibility low. A man is traveling down the highway at night, he's tired, and already has fairly poor vision. He's not a wealthy man, and is running on bald tires. As he rounds a corner, a deer is standing on the road, but he can't see it in time. He is able to slow down, but still hits the deer. He doesn't hit the deer hard enough to kill it, but it's clearly injured beyond any hope of survival, so he grabs his pistol and dispatches the suffering deer . Upon approaching the he noticed that the deer was very skinny and grey, it's been a long hard winter, and cwd is a real problem in the area.

What was the cause of death for this deer?
What was the mechanism of death for this deer?
What was the manner of death for this deer?

These three questions are asked, and in most cases answered every time a person dies. In some cases one or more cannot be answered.

These three questions don't provide answers to these questions.

Why did the deer die?
What should the other deer in the area be concerned about?
What should the other people in the area be concerned about?
How should this deer's death be reported to the public?


More of rant than anything, just seems like we're not asking the right questions.

 

[MNbogboy]

Obviously democrat anti gun policy led up to the fact a handgun was available to dispatch the deer. The Fermi getting practiced by the Sims have put the man's night vision at risk like it has mine. Iptgamologist visits in our state have been considered unnecessary in my state for over a year. The deer,s death would be considered covid related because of the Sri ers vision problems and the fatality would also be racked up to covid to further add fear to public opinion here in Minnefornia covid has beco.e ticket to ffl reelection s.also the icy road so. The story are also a product of climate change. There are too many people being sucked into the AOC thunberg myths along with the extreme weather reporting by MSM

 

[bozoben]

Cause of death: Covid-19...or 20, or 21 or whichever one we're on now

 

[backwoodsshooter]

Reading through some of the threads here got me thinking. Everyone has an opinion on what's going on, but very few of us seem to be able to provide much for facts. This leads to confusion, emotion, and sometimes even disrespect. This can be caused by something as simple as asking a question.

So I have a couple questions. It's a hypothetical situation meant to do nothing other than be thought provoking. I'm obviously bored today.

It's cold, roads are icy, visibility low. A man is traveling down the highway at night, he's tired, and already has fairly poor vision. He's not a wealthy man, and is running on bald tires. As he rounds a corner, a deer is standing on the road, but he can't see it in time. He is able to slow down, but still hits the deer. He doesn't hit the deer hard enough to kill it, but it's clearly injured beyond any hope of survival, so he grabs his pistol and dispatches the suffering deer . Upon approaching the he noticed that the deer was very skinny and grey, it's been a long hard winter, and cwd is a real problem in the area.

What was the cause of death for this deer?
What was the mechanism of death for this deer?
What was the manner of death for this deer?

These three questions are asked, and in most cases answered every time a person dies. In some cases one or more cannot be answered.

These three questions don't provide answers to these questions.

Why did the deer die?
What should the other deer in the area be concerned about?
What should the other people in the area be concerned about?
How should this deer's death be reported to the public?


More of rant than anything, just seems like we're not asking the right questions.

simple, all because COVID-19. that it, that's the reason for all the problems these days.

that is the answer to all your questions- RONA.

/sarcasm

 

[wv270wsm]

Roads were icy due to road crew being short staffed because of the COVID .
Deer was along the road because of new growth eating because the road mowing crew is short staffed due to COVID
Driver hadn't been to eye doc to get glasses due to restrictions from the COVID
Driver wasn't wealthy because of cut hours at work due to the COVID
So if you can catch where this is headed everything in life can and will be blamed because of COVID for the next several years.
Now what I find really suprising is the fact that this guy had ammo to shoot the deer with and you can blame that on oh yeah the COVID too

 

[Deputy819]

 

[DJ Fergus]

Reading through some of the threads here got me thinking. Everyone has an opinion on what's going on, but very few of us seem to be able to provide much for facts. This leads to confusion, emotion, and sometimes even disrespect. This can be caused by something as simple as asking a question.

So I have a couple questions. It's a hypothetical situation meant to do nothing other than be thought provoking. I'm obviously bored today.

It's cold, roads are icy, visibility low. A man is traveling down the highway at night, he's tired, and already has fairly poor vision. He's not a wealthy man, and is running on bald tires. As he rounds a corner, a deer is standing on the road, but he can't see it in time. He is able to slow down, but still hits the deer. He doesn't hit the deer hard enough to kill it, but it's clearly injured beyond any hope of survival, so he grabs his pistol and dispatches the suffering deer . Upon approaching the he noticed that the deer was very skinny and grey, it's been a long hard winter, and cwd is a real problem in the area.

What was the cause of death for this deer?
What was the mechanism of death for this deer?
What was the manner of death for this deer?

These three questions are asked, and in most cases answered every time a person dies. In some cases one or more cannot be answered.

These three questions don't provide answers to these questions.

Why did the deer die?
What should the other deer in the area be concerned about?
What should the other people in the area be concerned about?
How should this deer's death be reported to the public?


More of rant than anything, just seems like we're not asking the right questions.

I think I know where you are going with this. I don't have the answer. I can say this: seems like just about everything, especially big news on the media is driven and steered in a certain direction by greed(profit). That doesn't mean the situation & circumstances isn't real or very dangerous. It just means that the greedy are twisting it whatever way they can so they can profit more from it. I say this because my uncle is in really bad condition. He's 76 and been having health issues. He got worse. He went to the hospital and They told him he had Covid, gave him meds and sent him home. He got worse & went elsewhere for medical treatment and they told him it wasn't Covid but he had the flu. Both very dangerous for him with his prior health issues. Either one of those could kill him in his shape. Now I don't know if he's got Covid or the flu. I don't know why the differing diagnosis. I do know that there's more funding for Covid than the flu.

 

[nmbarta]

If this were a human, and not a deer.
Cause of death. Gunshot wound to the head. Unarguable. That is what actually killed the deer.
Mechanism of death. Likely blood loss/ cns disruption of some sort. Either way, the mechanism is basically the physics behind the cause.
Manner of death. Only five to choose from. Natural, accidental, suicidal, homicidal, or undermined. All deaths fall under one of these. In this case, if human, homicidal.
It's not legal to kill a deer to end suffering in most cases.
Media report: Man poaches a doe off I-90 and leaves her lay.
Technically this is true.

None of this answers why the deer died.
The deer was old, it was cold, she was likely starving due to long hard winter, possibly suffering from cwd.
She was standing in the road to avoid the deep snow. It was bad timing for her, but the end result was unavoidable.
If it wasn't for the gun shot wound, the wounds from the car would have killed her shortly after, and even without the wounds from the car, she wouldn't survive the winter.

Why matters. We don't get to hear the why, we get to hear the cause. In the situation above, the cause of death had little to do with why the deer died.

CAUSE OF DEATH: COVID-19

Just something to think about

 

[Rifleman97]

I really don't want to get political, so I won't. I will simply state the facts.

If someone is battling cancer, and is doing well, but goes downhill because of covid and died, the "Cause" of death will be covid. The cancer will be listed as a preexisting condition because without covid, that person would not have died.

If a person with cancer is already going downhill, gets covid and dies, the cause of death will be listed as cancer.

The story you depicted is blatantly trying to push the side that covid deaths aren't real and that they're all preexisting conditions that were lied about.

On every form 4 (not the gun kind) that a coroner fills out has more than just cause of death. It has the 1. Immediate cause of death. 2. Antecedent cause of death, and 3. Preexisting conditions.

So, even if someone died of a heart attack, or lung failure, those would be the antecedent cause of death. The "mode of death" per se. But, if they would not have died at that time if they didn't have covid, covid is still the cause of death.

So yes, although someone might have died of lung failure, even if they had lung cancer, if the coroner determines that they would not have died at that time if they didn't have covid, then covid "caused" their death. Even if it wasn't the direct thing that failed rendering the person deceased.

I attached the form above where it was most relevant. If you read it it explains clearly in the subtext how it's meant to be filled out. And if it's filled out properly, it can seem weird that someone with cancer died of covid and not cancer. But it's the way that it's been for many many years. It's not some magical new way to manipulate people, it's medical procedure being followed correctly and misinterpreted by people who don't understand it.

 

[P7M13]

I'm not going to invoke the classic, "but for..." clause.

1. What was the cause of death for this deer?
   - being unlucky
2. What was the mechanism of death for this deer?
   - all things being equal, entropy.
3. What was the manner of death for this deer?
   - a relief. It didn't want to witness the political squabbling across America in the coming years.

1. Why did the deer die?
   - bourbon, bad choices, chasing too many does. The bill always comes due....
2. What should the other deer in the area be concerned about?
   - the herd knew he had been hitting Old Grand Dad pretty hard. They thought a group switch to Bulleit was in their best interest.
3. What should the other people in the area be concerned about?
   - What their "friends" think about them on Twitter, Facebook and Tik Tok.
4. How should this deer's death be reported to the public?
   - The dude's poor right? He was delivered a few meals. Months later, after the Prions have laid waste to his body, the coroner can note it in a dull report, "subject suffered from the advanced stages of cervidae borne CWD."

 

[ARCaveman]

I don't really want to get political either but I know that's the case with everything now a days.

I put stents in people every single day for a living, and I'lm tell you this. If a person has a heart attack and pass away. Later it is determined they tested positive for Covid then that person died of Covid. Whether that actually had anything to do with it or not.
In my mind it is the same argument as the case for vaccines cause Autism, correlation does not mean causation.

 

[RODSTRADLEY]

No matter how, Dead is Dead!

 

[nmbarta]

Rifleman97
Thank you, I wasn't looking to be blatant about anything.....like I said, something to think about. I appreciate the information.
But.....We don't get multiple causes of death in the media now do we? We get immediate cause in the news. Sort of my point.
Just to clarify, because I don't know. Someone who has stage 4 cancer of some sort, with a prognosis of 8 weeks, gets covid, which causes death in 2 weeks, will be reported as a covid death? In this case, he did not die from cancer, but was certainly going downhill, and covid killed him. Would covid be listed as immediate cause, and cancer as antecedent cause? Or are you saying, by "going downhill" that they are in the process of passing from cancer and then get covid, the death would be listed as cancer? This seems like it could come down to splitting hairs, and if one cause pays better, it might influence (a) (b) in the report above. I would like to think not, I just know what money does to people.

I'm not sure how you gathered that I don't think covid deaths are real from what I posted. I simply wanted to provoke thought about why, and yes, bring into question which covid deaths should be of concern to the general public.

I don't think my assessment of how the media reports, is out of line. Given the situation I presented, I did not accuse the media of lying. I pointed out that they report the information that gets them views, the facts behind what they report don't make the cut for air time.

 

[Rifleman97]

Rifleman97
Thank you, I wasn't looking to be blatant about anything.....like I said, something to think about. I appreciate the information.
But.....We don't get multiple causes of death in the media now do we? We get immediate cause in the news. Sort of my point.
Just to clarify, because I don't know. Someone who has stage 4 cancer of some sort, with a prognosis of 8 weeks, gets covid, which causes death in 2 weeks, will be reported as a covid death? In this case, he did not die from cancer, but was certainly going downhill, and covid killed him. Would covid be listed as immediate cause, and cancer as antecedent cause? Or are you saying, by "going downhill" that they are in the process of passing from cancer and then get covid, the death would be listed as cancer? This seems like it could come down to splitting hairs, and if one cause pays better, it might influence (a) (b) in the report above. I would like to think not, I just know what money does to people.

I'm not sure how you gathered that I don't think covid deaths are real from what I posted. I simply wanted to provoke thought about why, and yes, bring into question which covid deaths should be of concern to the general public.

I don't think my assessment of how the media reports, is out of line. Given the situation I presented, I did not accuse the media of lying. I pointed out that they report the information that gets them views, the facts behind what they report don't make the cut for air time.

I'll start with the "I'm not sure how you gathered that I don't think covid deaths are real.." it wasn't necessarily an assumption about you, but a fact that there are people that believe that.

As to the antecedent cause I can get more specific for sure. For example: if someone's prognosis for cancer is they have 8 weeks to live, they get covid, and die in 2 weeks, then yes. Covid was the cause of death. Because by the definition of the form, covid caused them to die earlier than the other factors naturally would have.

If the prognosis was they had 2 weeks to live, got covid, and died after 2 weeks, the prognosis would be a cancer death as covid didn't have any measurable effect on the death.

The reason I don't believe the media numbers are inflated isn't because most of the people don't have underlying conditions, they likely do. But the matter is, all of those people died sooner than they would have without covid. There's 4 people from my hometown that died of covid in the past 2 months that I knew personally. Ones prognosis was stage 4 lung cancer from smoking many years. He was not doing super well but was stable. Doctors said if he didn't get covid he could've probably lived another year or two. So his family has to go a year or two without him when they could've had him, due to covid. So even though if he didn't have cancer when he got covid, he wouldn't have died, same goes in reverse. If he didn't have covid, he wouldn't have died then, so that's the cause of death.

hopefully that clears up any questions and my reasoning behind my own thoughts