trying to get into long range shooting with something that wont break the bank

[Mikecr]

Sorry, I don't know anything about Savage barrels of late.
But I know someone here with a Savage custom shop gun in 6br that'll shoot.
Seems he wasn't happy with the original performance. So he sent the gun to the custom shop and told them not to send it back until it shot. For ~$400 they returned it with test groups(and the loads used). And I believe it'll contend now in 200yd score shooting -around here.

Now this fella is not a savvy reloader, so there is the question of whether Savage turned it around with load development, or a barrel replacement. He didn't know..
And I don't know if he recognizes that was the best 400 gunbucks he ever spent!

 

[shuamee]

thanks mikecr and milanuk. deff gonna look in on the savages. didnt know rem had gone so far downhill. i mean i see some things comein out lately with a little prob here or there just figured they got a bad one or something. cthank yall for the information helped out alot

 

[milanuk]

Savage barrels are one of those things that will make you start questioning just what exactly *does* matter... the factory barrels are gun-drilled and then reamed to size and then rifled, but not lapped as custom barrels are to remove the tool marks. As a result... they usually have a *lot* of machining marks, especially on top of the lands.

For a run-of-the-mill hunting rifle, they use a piloted reamer as you would expect, but the pilot may or may not be that great of a fit in the new barrel depending on what it was reamed to. As a result, when you borescope the barrel you may find the chamber slightly offset from the bore. On the Target Actions they go to much greater trouble to match the pilot to at least a given batch of barrels, so the effect is considerably less. That may have been the result of some rather vocal complaints from one of their team shooters a few years back....

The crowning process seems to be one of their weak points. Either you get almost nothing, a burr, or a kind of questionable looking chamfer. Some people send the gun back a time or two to get that addressed; personally I think it'd be cheaper/easier to go take the barrel to a local gunsmith to touch up the crown for $20-35 or so and march on.

The point is... the barrels may look kind of scurrilous if you look thru them with a bore scope... but generally speaking they *do* shoot pretty well. They usually do foul a little more than a custom hand-lapped tube, but not nearly as bad as the specimens from the 80s and 90s.

At least thats my experience having looked at and shot a handful or two of them over the last 5-6 years.

 

[Pons]

From the range of rifles you mentioned (R Bros, TRG, Rem, Savage) it does not sound like money is the driving factor. (trying to get into long range shooting with something that won't break the bank? - How big is the bank? -rhetorical question)

I am a big savage fan (for all the reasons already mentioned), but I do not love most of their stocks. I will not argue with Savage target rifle's performance (or many of their other models). It is fantastic. (note - Savage stocks can be upgraded)

I've shot some very nice modified Remingtons and some good shooting stock ones as well. Rems have lots of upgrades available (easy to change stocks, install jewell trigger), but if you want to upgrade past that, costs 200 - 300 or so to get the action trued, you need your barrels chambered and fitted.. You could go straight to R Bros and get a blueprinted one.

Between Rem and Savage, I prefer Savage.

Question, how much work / tinkering do you want to do? If you like working on guns, then starting with Savages or Remingtons can be lots of fun. If you find a gun that you really like the stock and components on, well that is great as well!

If you want a target rig, Savage makes great ones (stock - no modifications needed). If you are looking for something else..

If you can go straight to the gun you want right away (and you have some custom rigs in mind), something like R Bros, or Len's Rifles Custom, Precision Long Range Hunting Rifles Ready To Ship could be a great way to go out of the gate.
Besides, you could have a very strong, well built custom action to boot!

Going any direction with this could be a lot of fun. Good luck, have fun shopping.

 

[kc]

I got my hands on a magazine that is given out at Gander Mountain(ON TARGET) They tested a MODEL 12 SAVAGE they were shooting the 6.5 CREEDMOOR its got the Accutrigger a fluted barrel HS Precision Pro-Series stock and it made one hole 0.446" Of wich the diameter of one shot is
0.256" The guys that tested the Rifle stated" this is the most accurate rifle they have tested.
The photo showed one hole. (3 shots)They used a WEAVER 4X20X50 SUPER SLAM. The Rifle is in a Caldwell Lead Slead FCX Rifle rest for the test.
and it has an over sized bolt handle. How much? it listed for? $1.081
You don't need to change or add a thing..
one hole at 100 yards? that out of the box SAVAGE.. I spent around $2000 on my Remington and it never shot like this.

 

[Pons]

I got my hands on a magazine that is given out at Gander Mountain(ON TARGET) They tested a MODEL 12 SAVAGE they were shooting the 6.5 CREEDMOOR its got the Accutrigger a fluted barrel HS Precision Pro-Series stock and it made one hole 0.446" Of wich the diameter of one shot is
0.256" The guys that tested the Rifle stated" this is the most accurate rifle they have tested.
The photo showed one hole. (3 shots)They used a WEAVER 4X20X50 SUPER SLAM. The Rifle is in a Caldwell Lead Slead FCX Rifle rest for the test.
and it has an over sized bolt handle. How much? it listed for? $1.081
You don't need to change or add a thing..
one hole at 100 yards? that out of the box SAVAGE.. .

I want one!

-Pons

 

[milanuk]

I got my hands on a magazine that is given out at Gander Mountain(ON TARGET).

Which month/year was that magazine? Tried searching over on their online site and couldn't find it... I'd like to find it if possible!

 

[Jake Levi]

Thanks guys, you are making a believer out of me ! I am on a fixed income, but, could budget that $1,000 and change over a bit of time easier then getting hung up on a long path of upgrades that would double the cost of the Savage.

This is a great site, and its answering a LOT of questions I have had over the past couple of years. lightbulb

 

[kc]

June /July.

 

[milanuk]

Got it, thanks. Nice how the online version allows you to 'clip' just the pages of interest and download them as a high-quality PDF - very handy when the article I'm interested in is just two pages

 

[Jake Levi]

Good pics of you guys on the Savage site news, congratulations !

 

[shuamee]

pons the main question although i didnt have it worded right iswhat would i be better off to do buy a gun off the shelf like savage or rem go ahead and get used to the gun and the set up and have it upgraded whenever it needed it or i had the money or should i save up money for a good while and go for somethin like a rbros. somethin that had already been trued up and upgraded and all. both options a good bit cheaper than ordering off the mcmillan site or cheytac or things like that. so gun off the shelf and upgrade when i can or save for a while and get somethin already worked?

 

[Jake Levi]

Shaumee that is what I am going to do,

emphasis the first year on a hunting rifle that I can shoot ~ 600 yards, and then add an off the shelf LR caliber, hopefully the .338, I think a Savage is very real for both of these, and the LR will be for hunting as well, even with a long SS barrel.

I can see winding up with a couple calibers too, a .308 and the .338 or .300. Time will tell, I have been on the Savage sitre a lot the past few days and see some really good possibilities there right out of the box, SS, accutrak triggers and Accustocks and affordable prices. Thats SMRPs.

 

[Pons]

pons the main question although i didnt have it worded right iswhat would i be better off to do buy a gun off the shelf like savage or rem go ahead and get used to the gun and the set up and have it upgraded whenever it needed it or i had the money or should i save up money for a good while and go for somethin like a rbros. somethin that had already been trued up and upgraded and all. both options a good bit cheaper than ordering off the mcmillan site or cheytac or things like that. so gun off the shelf and upgrade when i can or save for a while and get somethin already worked?

For me, if I wanted an inexpensive tack driver that I did not have to modify, I would go with a Savage target rifle. If I wanted to go inexpensive for accuracy potential after upgrades, I would start with an inexpensive Savage Action. If I wanted everything smithed for me (vs. me putting it together) to get a rifle just how I wanted it first time around, or if I wanted a really big boomer I would start with a custom action and have a custom built rifle. If I already had a non Savage, non custom action sitting around that I wanted to upgrade, I might look into getting it trued... but I really would rather go another route.

Kirby Allen's web site shows a nice comparison of a factory action vs. a custom action and he shows what is done to "true" a factory action. http://apsrifles.com/Custom_Built_Firearms.html

I can see any one of those ways (target, factory with upgrades, full custom) of getting to your goal being a lot of fun.

You mentioned starting with a Rem Varmint style. I've shot some Rem LE style rifles and stock Savage entry level LE line .308's that were both sub .75 moa guns stock with factory ammo. IMO, that is decent shooting. Is that the kind of performance you are looking for? Are you looking for better? ( I am guessing you are)

How accurate/precise are you hoping for? Some benchrest rigs get down into the zeros and .1's (inches at 100yds). http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/05/beggs-develops-radical-rig-in-west-texas-tunnel/ (Gene let me shoot this tack driver for a day a few years back, great rifle and would be a blast if I was into bench rest. ) Getting down real low can start to make things like temp and density altitude and the effect on internal and external ballistics start playing a larger role in what kind of groups you get with ammo that maybe shot great one day and is just a little off another.

If you want an a factory gun that is an absolute hammer, would you like a single shot Savage target rifle in .308? I don't know what you have pictured as your ultimate rifle.


I don't know if you read these articles on upgrading Savages or not:
http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/long-range-rig.php
http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/savage-tactical-rifle-project-1.php



By the way, I have really enjoyed this thread. It has made me think over some of the guns and projects I have had in the past and am planning for the future. Thank you for starting it!

And again, best of luck with your build, I hope you get what you wanted!