Trying to build a load for an old rifle

mooch

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Hi all, this is my first post! I was hoping someone could give me some insight about the problems I’m having. I am trying to work a load for coyote hunting with a rem 700 in .223. I believe the barrel is a 1:14 24” long and it’s older. When I received the rifle the prev owner said that it had been shot a lot. Maybe 5000rounds. The problem I’m having is inconsistent groups at 100 yards. I’m reloading for this gun and think the problem might be in my powder/ bullet selection. Currently I’m trying IMR 4198 19.3grains with hot day 40gr v max. The other odd thing I’m seeing is measured velocities with a deviation of almost 500 fps. I’ve replaced the scope on the rifle and tried various loads except factory and I feel like it could be a losing battle. Any help would be appreciated and thanks for pouring over this long post.
 

Zen Archery

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I’m gonna guess you need a new barrel. 5K is quite a bit. 1:14 and your bullet selection is right. If you’re not getting groups you want you can tinker with load but I believe you’re barrel may be at tale end of life.
 

mooch

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Thanks for the reply. I don’t have a lot of experience with barrels being burned out. I don’t know anyone with a scope either. Guess it’s time to start saving for a barrel
 

DSheetz

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I am running a 1:14 twist 223 . I use 55 grain Sierra hollow point boat tails in it , with H335 at 22.0 grains , CCI small rifle primers putting me at a little over 2900 FPS . I weigh my brass after I , size it , cut it to length debur the flash holes and cut the primer pockets to the same depth . The brass you use will make a big difference in the mv as if you are using military once fired brass it varies a lot in capacity causing a lot of difference in the pressure . You may look at the chamber area of your rifle to see if there is a build up of carbon in that area it will look like a gray ring incase you haven't seen a carbon ring before . Inspect the rifling to make sure that it is clean and no copper fowling is present ect . . The older 223's and the 5.56's were made to shoot 55 grain bullets having used the 1:14 and 1:12 twists . I don't think your chronograph is behaving badly I would look at the brass for variances in capacity and weigh each powder charge as well as the bullets so that all things were as close to the same in each round .
 
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Reelamin

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Lots of potential. I currently have a custom 223 that shoots for absolute crap. I am beyond frustrated with it and would gladly throw away the $900 barrel if I had not already paid the 900 for it....barrel not the rifle.....LILJA barrel. 5K is not bad for a 223 just how it was shot. Clean it to bare metal, sort brass to at least same brand, load a 40, 50, 55 gr bullet with two different powders at bottom weight in any manual, If you can set 20K off lands if not start at the basis SAMMI OAL. Compare your groups. What is inconsistent group sizes? 500fps swing I doubt is a shot out barrel. That will give you a better start on determining the issue even with it being scoped.
 

Coyote Shadow Tracker

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Hi all, this is my first post! I was hoping someone could give me some insight about the problems I’m having. I am trying to work a load for coyote hunting with a rem 700 in .223. I believe the barrel is a 1:14 24” long and it’s older. When I received the rifle the prev owner said that it had been shot a lot. Maybe 5000rounds. The problem I’m having is inconsistent groups at 100 yards. I’m reloading for this gun and think the problem might be in my powder/ bullet selection. Currently I’m trying IMR 4198 19.3grains with hot day 40gr v max. The other odd thing I’m seeing is measured velocities with a deviation of almost 500 fps. I’ve replaced the scope on the rifle and tried various loads except factory and I feel like it could be a losing battle. Any help would be appreciated and thanks for pouring over this long post.
Does it "Keyhole" at all when shooting paper?
 

Coyote Shadow Tracker

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Coyote Shadow Tracker are you asking if the bullet is tumbling ?
Well when a barrel is getting shot out or the crown is worn out the bullet will "Wobble" you can tell when you look at the bullet hole in the paper at 100yrds. it will not be a round hole the size of the bullet more like oblong "keyhole". Not tumbling unless it is really bad. Then it probably would not hit the target.
 

DSheetz

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I was just wondering as I had a 17 Remington that the bullets would sometimes hit flat on the side it was a new rifle but it was early on in the 17's history and at that time they would even blow up in mid flight . If you were watching them close enough when they blew up it looked like a puff of smoke .
 

mooch

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No keyholes or tumbling. The inconsistencies with the groups are more like 1” group for a string or two then 3”. Im going to sort out my brass and try staying with one brand when shooting groups. As for the starting 20 thousands off the lands, I’ll give that a shot. Thanks for all the good advice.
 

Reelamin

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No keyholes or tumbling. The inconsistencies with the groups are more like 1” group for a string or two then 3”. Im going to sort out my brass and try staying with one brand when shooting groups. As for the starting 20 thousands off the lands, I’ll give that a shot. Thanks for all the good advice.
If it is shooting several groups like you say then opening up then closing up my guess it is not a shot out barrel. I have only had one .223 with a shot out barrel, and it just opened up its group size noticeably. It's group size also started to vary up to half an inch in group size and never held one size group to group.
 

Veteran

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I’m gonna guess you need a new barrel. 5K is quite a bit. 1:14 and your bullet selection is right. If you’re not getting groups you want you can tinker with load but I believe you’re barrel may be at tale end of life.
Ditto, You need a $65 Teslong bore scope but I would bet you got no rifling left in a barrel w 5000 shots down it. You should start worrying even after 2000 rounds if they are hot loads and it was shot at times back after back rounds and got really hot.

Check the barrel condition with a scope or take it to a friend or gunsmith who has one.

This is a a must know on a bbl w 5000 rounds.....
 

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