Truing an action over rated?

[Canhunter35]

My 700 Long Range went from shooting 1" groups down to 3/8" groups with a barrel change. I have witnessed the same for multiple rifles. Trueing is not the end all be all for accuracy. If you want the ultimate accuracy your rifle can achieve, you can afford it and it helps you feel better, then of course have it done. But to say rebarreling a factory rifle with a high quality barrel and not having it trued is the equivalent of buying another factory rifle is 100% BS.

Lol my point is ur in for a dollar what's another dime. An action only needs proper truing once. For the next barrel it's good to go. If ur doing the barrel urself is different, but if a gunsmith has the barrel pulled I'd follow their recommendations and most like to true the action up.
Asking for a professionals advice then ignoring it is just bs

 

[FIGJAM]

I don't have a problem paying to have it done if it adds a ton a value. I have had some smith's tell me they won't rebarrel it unless I pay to have it trued. I have had a couple tell me it didnt matter and then the prices seem to vary...if the difference in a .2 moa gun vs a .3 moa gun, I don't think I will care.

The only reason I brought up the current accuracy of my rifle is because it seems to me that of it was out of wack and needed to be trued up wouldnt it present some problems now? I dont have fliers or problems with cold bore shots etc

 

[FIGJAM]

What trueing does is bring consistency, ever wonder why that cold bore shot is out of the group or you see flyers, this is one of those places you'll see those coming from. I would say most accuracy potential is in the barrel BUT the barrel can't fix anything attached to it, a firing pin springs or a dragging firing pin will destroy consistency, a barrel under stress destroys consistency, you be able to shoot groups that are cool to post about but you'll find yourself making excuses like the wind got that one or I pulled it or the bag dropped when in reality you've screwed a perfect barrel to something less perfect.

Wouldn't these imperfections show themselves in the current rifle?

 

[bigngreen]

Wouldn't these imperfections show themselves in the current rifle?

Not necessarily, that's why a good many gunsmiths won't just slap a barrel on a Rem action, you undo all the goop and loose stuff and you can go the other way. I had a personal rifle do this, just did a quick rebarrel on a Rem just to try a reamer out and it shot OK but not what it should, pulled the barrel and squared it up, set the barrel back and you could feel the positive lock up now what tightening the barrel and it shot stupid small, my daughter turned a 1 moa rock at 1500 yards into gravel with it. Your tightening a few tolerances over the factory barrel and recoil lug and you need the mating surfaces to match the new barrel surfaces.
I'll just chamber one up for a guy and put it on without touching the action but in no way shape or form will I listen to someone whining about it shooting afterwards!!!

 

[762x51]

while it's apart, you might as well do it. i had it done to my 700P a few years ago when i was having my smith cut the barrel down and thread it for a suppressor. it was already an accurate gun but truing it shrunk the groups down even more and that's with the factory barrel. my smith charged $200 for truing and $50 for the threading but he's an old work buddy and gives me good deals if i help him out at the shop while he's doing it. if my kids ever get out of daycare i'll put a new barrel on it one day.

 

[keithcandler]

It is good for a gunsmith not to be able to be blamed for anything, thus truing eliminates a variable. People live in fear. It is a BIG deal for gunsmiths to go along with the talking heads and be current on "correct" thinking of the time if he wants to pay his bills at the end of the month.

Having said this, the quality of the barrel, and the quality of the workmanship goes a long way. If a barrel is indicated in by the gunsmith to the .0001-.0002, the barrel bore is uniform from end to end, the barrel is scoped for inclusions, action is properly bedded in good stock, good glass, great trigger, the barrel shoot tiny, tiny groups.

It is a given that the owner knows how to clean a rifle to keep the Carbon fouling out, and has dies that will seat bullets to within .002(. I realize this is a pipe dream).

On my own guns, I square the front of the receiver, use custom recoil lug, lap the lugs, call it done...varmint and hunting rifles. If I were competing in PRS, I would shoot a Borden action.

I would not hesitate to have JE Jones do my work, no hesitation....NONE!

Cody, I am using your pictures as an demonstration on what happens to dry lugs. If the lugs are re cut, if you don't use lube, they will gaul once again

This product is fantastic, even with stainless on stainless:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AeroShell-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

apply to lugs with a tooth pick, little goes a long way, also on cocking cams.

 

[bigngreen]

Another way to look at it is, if your going to take the time and effort to dial a barrel in so the bore is running true through the throat with no stress and cut the tenon, thread it and chamber it all to the tenths why would you screw it to something that is multiple thousandths of, the absalutely best rem I've seen was just under .004 out of square on the front of the receiver, might as well chamber in a three jaw and just slam some threads on it and shove a reamer into it.

 

[keithcandler]

I have Four 6 BR's on non trued Rem 700's that will shoot tiny, tiny groups, and 6 PPCs, and on and on. How about a 31" unturned blank, completely freefloated on a 700, non trued 700 with a Mike Ezel tuner on it, caliber is 6 XC...NOt politically correct by any means. Rem 700's are not supposed to be able to support a 31" unturned blank, but I have a shelf full of barrels that say other wise. Also a flock of 28" unturned blanks on 700's.

Here are some groups of the 6XC:

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The three groups above are adjusting the tuner, boring accuracy. 6ppc's and 6 BR's shoot tiny groups...Mike Ezel tuners make life easy.

It sure helps to have the bolt face square on taking measurements, but anyone worth a dam can work around that.

Bottom Line, truing helps new guys in having confidence. If a thing gives a guy more confidence, then by all means do it. Truing also eliminates a variable that the gunsmith will not be blamed for when the shooter does not know how to clean his rifle, reload with any degree beyond beginner stage, shoots off of his coat laying across the hood of his truck or in the dirt.

I like Borden actions and have had a flock of Hall M's and Panda's.

When do you want to true an action, when you are using a platform from Ruger, Winchester(especially pre 64), and Mausers.

If a gunsmith wanted to promote doing something that really improved accuracy, it would be a barrel tuner, and Mike Ezel's (gunsandgunsmithing)...almost as good as discovering girls!

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/members/gunsandgunsmithing.551050/

If I were a gunsmith dealing with the public, I would true every action that came through my shop...a guy in business in today's politically correct world, has to walk the fine line. How in the world is a guy in business going to be able to offer any kind of an accuracy guarantee if he does not true an action? Dumb phucks out there do not know how to clean a rifle, know how to measure the COAL to the lands, don't know how to size brass to fit a chamber, bench techniques are worthless shooting off of po go sticks, and have absolutely no idea what a wind flag is?

 

[Hired Gun]

Truing actions is a false economy. It is much cheaper to sell your action at a gunshow and buy a new Stiller, Kelby , Defiance, Bat that is superior in every way. Then you have a true custom rifle without all the problems that are introduced to a factory action from "truing it." The currently made aftermarket actions built on current CNC equipment hold tolerances of .0002" from one end to the other on every surface plus you get a fully once piece bolt, an M-16 extractor, an integral lug and scope rail, a true solid bottom single shot if you want peak performance, side bolt release, fluted bolt if you want it. perfect bolt timing, user specified bolt clearance, any size mag box you want, your choice of firing pin diameters. To get all that on a trued up Remington is going to be 200-500 more than buying the custom action.

 

[Hired Gun]

I have been in the ballistic labs of a barrel makers and bullet manufacturers. Not one used a trued action. They clamp the barrels down and hand screw on the actions. The only thing an action brings to the accuracy table is a solid mount for the barrel. The bolt face is the only thing that touches a chambered round and that little 1/2" end cap would have a very hard time influencing a bullet after traveling through 24" of barrel. Guys were shooting some pretty small groups right after barrel rifling was invented.

 

[keithcandler]

Truing actions is a false economy. It is much cheaper to sell your action at a gunshow and buy a new Stiller, Kelby , Defiance, Bat that is superior in every way. Then you have a true custom rifle without all the problems that are introduced to a factory action from "truing it." The currently made aftermarket actions built on current CNC equipment hold tolerances of .0002" from one end to the other on every surface plus you get a fully once piece bolt, an M-16 extractor, an integral lug and scope rail, a true solid bottom single shot if you want peak performance, side bolt release, fluted bolt if you want it. perfect bolt timing, user specified bolt clearance, any size mag box you want, your choice of firing pin diameters. To get all that on a trued up Remington is going to be 200-500 more than buying the custom action.

This is a hard, hard truth to swallow, but it is still the truth.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Spend the money, get it fully blueprinted and trued. If it's done right, it only has to be done once. Then after that, it's just barrel swaps.

 

[FIGJAM]

Truing actions is a false economy. It is much cheaper to sell your action at a gunshow and buy a new Stiller, Kelby , Defiance, Bat that is superior in every way. Then you have a true custom rifle without all the problems that are introduced to a factory action from "truing it." The currently made aftermarket actions built on current CNC equipment hold tolerances of .0002" from one end to the other on every surface plus you get a fully once piece bolt, an M-16 extractor, an integral lug and scope rail, a true solid bottom single shot if you want peak performance, side bolt release, fluted bolt if you want it. perfect bolt timing, user specified bolt clearance, any size mag box you want, your choice of firing pin diameters. To get all that on a trued up Remington is going to be 200-500 more than buying the custom action.

I have heard that argument - this gun has some sentimental value, so I just want to give her a facelift with a proof barrel.

 

[Varminator 911]

I have been in the ballistic labs of a barrel makers and bullet manufacturers. Not one used a trued action. They clamp the barrels down and hand screw on the actions. The only thing an action brings to the accuracy table is a solid mount for the barrel. The bolt face is the only thing that touches a chambered round and that little 1/2" end cap would have a very hard time influencing a bullet after traveling through 24" of barrel. Guys were shooting some pretty small groups right after barrel rifling was invented.

I don't know much about this stuff. But that sounds good if you can clamp down your barrel when shooting at an elk. On the other hand if the barrel is free floating off the action isn't that another story? On a hunting rifle the barrel is "clamped" off the front of the action. Would make sense to me that the action needs to be a firm foundation not something torquing around.