"Trued" action With factory barrel

[fatjake]

What's the deal with guys saying they have a "trued" Reciever and the gunsmith reinstalled the factory barrel. You see it in the classifieds all the time.

If the gunsmith chases the threads wouldn't the old factory barrel be undersized to thread in the Reciever ? In turn making the barrel un usable

Say he only squares the bolt face, squares the Reciever face and laps the lugs. Isn't he removing enough material to change the headspace

I'm just trying to wrap
My head around what these people are paying for. Or say they are paying for. There are 3 possibilities

1. I'm an idiot and have no idea what I'm talking about (very plausible)

2. These people are liars and are just trying to pull one over on an individual who doesn't know when they are selling it

3. The "gunsmith" blew a bunch of smoke up their a**'s and charged them for something he didn't do

Which do you guys think it is

 

[L.Sherm]

If a smith does what you described above it is gonna change headspace. Gonna have to set the bareel back to get the correct headspace and lining up the markings on the barrel is gonna be the trick. I don't know why some body would do work on the action and then want to put a Factory barrel back on to me it's like pouring perfume on a pig.

 

[AZShooter]

I believe the barrel is threaded and headspaced after the receiver has been trued.

I believe lugs could be lapped for more even contact with the receiver without causing much headspace change but to do the other operations would change headspace.

IMO I do not see a need for blueprinting a factory rifle if it is to be used for hunting. I have owned many rifles and never once blue printed, lapped lugs etc and they shot fine.

Now if a guy were to go into LR competition then it might help. But frankly I would be buying a custom receiver like a Bat rather than try to improve upon a factory receiver.

CNC machining can hold some tight tolerances and today's factory actions are made that way. There is the possibility that the gunsmith could make a mistake in attempting to blueprint making it worse. I know as I saw it once on a custom rifle.

I actually had one gunsmith tell me that it is what the customer expects as part of the build of a custom rifle so he does it even if it won't make a difference in accuracy.

Let the flames begin.....

 

[J E Custom]

What's the deal with guys saying they have a "trued" Reciever and the gunsmith reinstalled the factory barrel. You see it in the classifieds all the time.

If the gunsmith chases the threads wouldn't the old factory barrel be undersized to thread in the Reciever ? In turn making the barrel un usable

Say he only squares the bolt face, squares the Reciever face and laps the lugs. Isn't he removing enough material to change the headspace

I'm just trying to wrap
My head around what these people are paying for. Or say they are paying for. There are 3 possibilities

1. I'm an idiot and have no idea what I'm talking about (very plausible)

2. These people are liars and are just trying to pull one over on an individual who doesn't know when they are selling it

3. The "gunsmith" blew a bunch of smoke up their a**'s and charged them for something he didn't do

Which do you guys think it is

It is not uncommon for a factory rifle barrel to be reused, It is uncommon to improve the performance very much (It is Possible If) The bolt face and the recoil lugs are squared, the receiver is squared
to the bolt centerline, the tenon is set back one thread, the chamber is re cut and head spaced correctly and the usual pillar bedding is done.
This process will have a chance to improve the accuracy if the barrel bore is good.

90% of factory chambers are not very true and concentric, so re cutting is about the only chance you have of improving the accuracy and only if the bore is good. All of the other improvements will not show much, if any improvement unless you start with a reasonably good bore.

Cost wise, It is cheaper because re cutting the chamber does not take a lot of time and you don't have the cost of a new barrel and all of the machining to install it.

When re installing the factory barrel it the same receiver, it does nothing to chase the threads but loosen the fit so it is a step in the wrong direction in my opinion. (The threads are as good as they will ever be).

Even though I prefer to re barrel a rifle with a custom barrel, It is possible to true everything up correctly and end up with a better shooting factory rifle because almost everything on a factory needs truing to some point.

If Done right, It is a good way to turn a 2 MOA rifle into a 1/2 to 3/4 MOA rifle without spending the money to have a custom barrel installed. It is however some what of a gamble as to how well/much it will improve it. A lot of the success of this procedure depends on the smith and how fussy he is. Just because you buy the best barrel made does not automatically guaranty a 1/4 MOA rifle. The same principals of trueness and workmanship still applies. I have repaired many rifles that supposedly had all of this done, and in many cases it was not.

So choose a smith wisely and decide what you want and what you expect when the work is done.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Georgiashooter]

It is not uncommon for a factory rifle barrel to be reused, It is uncommon to improve the performance very much (It is Possible If) The bolt face and the recoil lugs are squared, the receiver is squared
to the bolt centerline, the tenon is set back one thread, the chamber is re cut and head spaced correctly and the usual pillar bedding is done.
This process will have a chance to improve the accuracy if the barrel bore is good.

90% of factory chambers are not very true and concentric, so re cutting is about the only chance you have of improving the accuracy and only if the bore is good. All of the other improvements will not show much, if any improvement unless you start with a reasonably good bore.

Cost wise, It is cheaper because re cutting the chamber does not take a lot of time and you don't have the cost of a new barrel and all of the machining to install it.

When re installing the factory barrel it the same receiver, it does nothing to chase the threads but loosen the fit so it is a step in the wrong direction in my opinion. (The threads are as good as they will ever be).

Even though I prefer to re barrel a rifle with a custom barrel, It is possible to true everything up correctly and end up with a better shooting factory rifle because almost everything on a factory needs truing to some point.

If Done right, It is a good way to turn a 2 MOA rifle into a 1/2 to 3/4 MOA rifle without spending the money to have a custom barrel installed. It is however some what of a gamble as to how well/much it will improve it. A lot of the success of this procedure depends on the smith and how fussy he is. Just because you buy the best barrel made does not automatically guaranty a 1/4 MOA rifle. The same principals of trueness and workmanship still applies. I have repaired many rifles that supposedly had all of this done, and in many cases it was not.

So choose a smith wisely and decide what you want and what you expect when the work is done.

J E CUSTOM

Very wise words. You practically wrote my response for me.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I have many custom rifles with repurposed factory barrels. Like JE said, if done right, and if the barrel has a good bore, you can sometimes get 1/4-1/2 MOA shooters...Most of mine shoot like this. Only one of mine shoots 1/2-3/4 MOA right now, but I also haven't done a lot of working with it. And for a sub-500 yard lightweight deer rifle, it's more than adequate.

 

[Pdvdh]

Seems risky, when I have to pay professional machinist wages to experiment with that option. If I was able to do the work myself, the option would be much more appealing.

It also seems risky for both the gun owner and the gunsmith. Neither can know with any certainty if the factory barrel has potential or not, until after a lot of time and effort. Unhappy customers after the fact isn't a great business model.

I got tired of tweaking loads in the search for good accuracy with factory rifles / barrels. It was educational and interesting for a period of time. But then it got old and repetitive and unfulfilling when the rifles still wouldn't perform.

I find it interesting that some find repeatable success stories using this approach and methods. I finally just paid for custom, to minimize the aggravation. I pursue my hobbies for their enjoyment. Not for aggravation.

 

[Pdvdh]

I should add that I subscribe to the philosophy that only accurate rifles are interesting...

 

[L.Sherm]

I myself or would not recommend to a customer to set back a Factory barrel only if they are sure it shoots up to there expecations. If they want action work done then to me it's going half way if you don't install a custom barrel. Sure some factory barrels shoot o.k. but it's a gamble and if it doesn't shoot then is it your action work or the barrel. Most factory barrels also foul quicker.

 

[J E Custom]

There are many reasons to re use a factory barrel even though I like many, prefer to install a new custom barrel.

Some have a sentimental value to the person and just want to make the rifle as good as it can be. Others have trouble spending the money for a premium barrel when the factory barrel shoots as well as they can/need.

It is the smiths responsibility to check and advise the owner of what he needs and the problems with what he has if any. Many factory barrels are not worth saving and in order to come to this conclusion, the smith must inspect and/or test the quality of the barrel before he plunges of into the world of the un known.

I start with the obvious first. I ask how it shoots. Next I look at the bore with a bore scope, that will sometimes eliminate any further work. If the bore looks good and fouling is not bad (Normal for factory barrels) and I feel I have a chance of improving the accuracy, I express my opinion on any further work.

If I think the work will not improve the accuracy, I recommend leaving the rifle as is and limiting the range and keep the sentimental value as is (Lots of folks have rifles that their father or grand father owned and shot for many years and many cases don't plan on shooting it a lot, so I recommend leaving it as is and just cleaning it) leaving it just like they used it. (Once you change it, it is never the same).

For those that bought the rifle and just want it to shoot better, It is a viable option.

After the opinion is made to start with accurizing the rifle, there are still test that need to be performed in order to proceed. The next steep is to remove the factory barrel (The barrel has to be removed in order to set it back and re cut the chamber) then it is placed in a lathe between centers to measure run out. Again, if run out is excessive, I reinstall the barrel as it was and stop the work. (Each Smith has his own limit on run out) If everything checks out, at this point a total re build is recommended/done.

One other thing to take into account is that if the action is blueprinted, it will be done if in the future a re chamber to another cartridge or even a new custom barrel it installed it is work that should be done anyway so it is not wasted work.

I still recommend changing the barrel out when it is possible, but many times it is not an option and re using the factory barrel is necessary for one reason or another.

I will state this from my experiences on re installs, With out exception, if all of the criteria for a good factory barrel are met, the rifles have always benefited from this work and improved there accuracy. Some
were on average twice as good as they were and others were extremely
better after this work was done. My best all time change was a 25 WSSM that could not do any better than 5+ MOA and after this work it would consistently shoot 1 MOA. (Still not good to my standards but the owner was elated).

J E CUSTOM

 

[MudRunner2005]

Seems risky, when I have to pay professional machinist wages to experiment with that option. If I was able to do the work myself, the option would be much more appealing.

It also seems risky for both the gun owner and the gunsmith. Neither can know with any certainty if the factory barrel has potential or not, until after a lot of time and effort. Unhappy customers after the fact isn't a great business model.

I got tired of tweaking loads in the search for good accuracy with factory rifles / barrels. It was educational and interesting for a period of time. But then it got old and repetitive and unfulfilling when the rifles still wouldn't perform.

I find it interesting that some find repeatable success stories using this approach and methods. I finally just paid for custom, to minimize the aggravation. I pursue my hobbies for their enjoyment. Not for aggravation.

There's a few things you can do to the factory barrel to ensure you have as good a quality of a factory barrel as possible. Like re-crowning, cleaning up the chamber, hand-lapping, etc... You would be surprised how well a worked-over factory barrel can shoot. I have some that will rival the highest-end of the aftermarket barrel spectrum. Some with handloads have shot sub-1/4 MOA.

Also, once you do that much work to a factory tube, it's very easy to get them shooting.

 

[L.Sherm]

There's a few things you can do to the factory barrel to ensure you have as good a quality of a factory barrel as possible. Like re-crowning, cleaning up the chamber, hand-lapping, etc... You would be surprised how well a worked-over factory barrel can shoot. I have some that will rival the highest-end of the aftermarket barrel spectrum. Some with handloads have shot sub-1/4 MOA.

Also, once you do that much work to a factory tube, it's very easy to get them shooting.

If you do the work yourself to a factory barrel i could justify trying to make the barrel better, but if you have to pay to get it recrowned, setback and rechambered, handlapped how much are you willing to spend on a factory barrel? IMHO its just not worth paying a smith to do that much work to a factory barrel. Just my 2 cents

 

[MudRunner2005]

If you do the work yourself to a factory barrel i could justify trying to make the barrel better, but if you have to pay to get it recrowned, setback and rechambered, handlapped how much are you willing to spend on a factory barrel? IMHO its just not worth paying a smith to do that much work to a factory barrel. Just my 2 cents

My smith charges me the same for any standard rebarrel/blueprint job, and if I use a factory barrel, the only thing he does differently is he has to hand-lap it himself, instead of it already coming pre hand-lapped from the barrel maker...Everything else (crown, chamber, headspace, etc...) is a similar process to installing a fresh blank.

 

[dfanonymous]

If a smith does what you described above it is gonna change headspace. Gonna have to set the bareel back to get the correct headspace and lining up the markings on the barrel is gonna be the trick. I don't know why some body would do work on the action and then want to put a Factory barrel back on to me it's like pouring perfume on a pig.

well normally i would agree but you know...Remington quality control is um...hit or miss sometimes. i suppose in the unlikely event that you get a bad one that might be an option...if remington says 3 inch groups are acceptable.