Trouble Loading for a 257 Wheatherby

[fishingstockwell]

Hello,

I'm new to the forum, although I have read threads for quite some time. I have a current reloading project that I am working on for my brother and having trouble finding a good load. The rifle is a Ruger #1 chambered in 257 Weatherby. We have shot some of the factory 100 grain Norma spire points through the gun with .5" groups. He wants to shoot the 110 Accubond and reloading would save a lot of money over the factory loaded Weatherby ammo at $90/box.

Since there is so much jump in a Weatherby that you can not get close to the lands, I simply loaded all rounds to the SAAMI spec of 3.250 and used 70.0-74.0 grains of H1000 in half grain increments on the first set of reloads. Groups averaged from 1.5-3", some bigger, for 3 shot groups.

Second trip to the range I loaded all group with 74.0 grains of H1000, which showed no pressure signs at 3.250, and shot groups of 5, loaded progressively shorter by .010". Had a decent 1" group with 4 of 5 shots at 3.210 COAL. but nothing great.

This is the first Weatherby that I have tried reloading for, and has been the most difficult gun I've worked with. I'm hoping there are some tricks to loading for the Weatherby cartridges that someone can share. I know the gun is capable of shooting great groups, based on the factory ammo with the 100 grain spire points, but I can't find a good starting point for the 110 Accubonds. I have recently noticed that most of the factory loaded ammo has a much shorter COAL than the 3.250 SAAMI spec, and I'm thinking that could be the problem. We have thought about buying some Weatherby loaded ammo with the 110 Accubond to see how it shoots, and get a base to O-give measurement, but you can not find that round available anywhere. I'm about ready to give the gun back to my brother and tell him to just shoot the 100 grain factory ammo, but this would be the first gun that I could not substantially improve accuracy by reloading. Any suggestions for loading the 257 Weatherby with the 110 Accubond would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[MudRunner2005]

My factory Weatherby 110 Accubond ammo measured in at 3.164" C.O.A.L. And measured 2.645" to the ogive.

I also pulled a bullet once and measured the powder of a factory loaded round, and it was 69.5 grains of whatever mystery powder Norma loads for Weatherby in that cartridge. It could be a custom blended mix, but I heard rumor it regular Norma MRP...

Good luck, and hopefully this helps. Also, my .257 Wby was a complete pain in the a** to work up loads for. But it also had a defective bore from the factory that got progressively worse.

I don't have that gun anymore, but still have quite a bit of ammo stashed away incase I decide to ever build/buy another one.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

That isn't a Norma bullet. It is a Hornady spire point and you can pick up the pills at your lgs just fine. I'd run it with either rl22 or rl25 and forget getting another bullet to run. You simply don't have a lot of bore life to play around here, especially if she's acting fussy.

 

[fishingstockwell]

MudRunner,

Thanks for the measurements. That is very helpful info. How did the factory loaded Accubonds shoot for you? My theory, is that I am too long at SAAMI spec because everyone factory round is considerably shorter. My original loads were .086" longer than your factory shells, which is a big difference in terms of tuning a load. I don't understand how it could make that much difference with the weatherby's having so much jump to begin with, but I certainly see a pattern of all factory shells loaded well under SAAMI COAL.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[fishingstockwell]

Lefty,

Weatherby makes factory shells with both the Hornady spire point and the Norma spire point. I believe that the cheap $40/box rounds are with the Norma bullet, but I could be wrong. I agree that there isn't a lot of barrel life to play with, not that I have a lot of extra time either. I've got some RL 22 that I can try, but if it doesn't come together soon, my brother can't really complain about 1/2 moa with factory loads, especially since they are the cheapest ones that Weatherby makes.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[Dr. Vette]

Both the previous owner of my 257 as well as myself have played around trying to load for my Mark V. Neither one of us could match the factory ammo accuracy so far. For me, I took my boxes of factory ammo and measured each round for base-to-ogive length and matched it with my equipment in order to try and get the best results.

The rifle shoots under 1/2 inch at 200 yards with the Ballistic Tip and the Accubond ammo. While it pains me to pay the $80+ per box, I can't get anywhere near the accuracy so far, so I buy it. It's just not the rifle I shoot regularly.

I did by a crimping die for it, as it's about the only trick not yet tried.

Good luck with your loading!

 

[cape cove]

Try IMR 7828, Start at 68grs and work up .Watch for pressure. Best powder I've used with the 110 Accubond.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Lefty,

Weatherby makes factory shells with both the Hornady spire point and the Norma spire point. I believe that the cheap $40/box rounds are with the Norma bullet, but I could be wrong. I agree that there isn't a lot of barrel life to play with, not that I have a lot of extra time either. I've got some RL 22 that I can try, but if it doesn't come together soon, my brother can't really complain about 1/2 moa with factory loads, especially since they are the cheapest ones that Weatherby makes.

Thanks,
Matt

Norma makes spitzer bullets and round-noses , not spire points... They may make some bullets for factory ammo that they do not let loose on the reloading market or show on the website, but I somewhat doubt it...

Bullets

 

[MudRunner2005]

MudRunner,

Thanks for the measurements. That is very helpful info. How did the factory loaded Accubonds shoot for you? My theory, is that I am too long at SAAMI spec because everyone factory round is considerably shorter. My original loads were .086" longer than your factory shells, which is a big difference in terms of tuning a load. I don't understand how it could make that much difference with the weatherby's having so much jump to begin with, but I certainly see a pattern of all factory shells loaded well under SAAMI COAL.

Thanks,
Matt

You have it backwards... Under a normal set of circumstances, loads typically get MORE accurate and consistent with the closer they get to the lands, because of less jump they have to make to contact the rifling.

My Accumark had a super-long throat like your saying his rifle does. Using a case gauge, the bullet would fall out of the case before it would touch the lands. So there was no way for me to load anywhere near the lands, so I just loaded them about 0.010" shorter than magazine length and worked up powder charges from there. However, your brother's rifle is a single-shot, so there really is no way other than to just pick a length and stick with it. I'd load the bullets to about neck-length (where the base of the bullet is right at the base of the neck/shoulder junction) and work up powder charges from there.

Also, like Cape Cove said, try IMR 7828 SSC. It was the last powder I was working with in mine before getting rid of the rifle. H1000 was very picky for me in several other cartridges, as well as my .257 Wby.

 

[Dosh]

Matt, I've read some non-Weatherby rifles chambered in WBY calibers don't have as much freebore. Perhaps you might measure for distance to lands just to verify. You can use the Hornady modified case. The .257 factory WBY rifle has .378 freebore if that helps. Some #1's have 28" barrels some 24", all with 1:10 twist. My .257 WBY shoots very well at SAAMI cool with 115 Berger and H1000, but seems no two rifles like the same loads. Guess it would take the fun out of reloading. Good luck

 

[fishingstockwell]

Dosh -

This gun is the model with the 28" barrel, and it does have a very long throat. Using the Hornday OAL gauge it pushes the bullet all the way out of the case before it contacts the lands, so I am assuming it was chambered with a standard 257 wby reamer with the .378 free bore. The 28" barrel is sure nice for velocity. Staying within Nolser's max load of 74 grains, it was shooting the 110 very close to 3500 fps.

MudRunner -

I normally try to run my reloads very close to the lands for the exact reason you described. With the huge freebore of more than a 1/3, there is no getting close, and I'm not sure I want to. The Weatherby cartridges were designed with a lot of free bore to reduce over pressure that would otherwise be caused by the amount of powder in the larger case. In the 1960's that was the best solution to increase velocity without creating over pressure. I was thinking about shortening the COAL, only because most guys have very good luck with the factory loaded ammo and it is much shorter than SAMMI spec. Just thinking it may be some weird quirk with the Weatherbys.

I wish I knew what powder they were using. It would be easy to measure a factory load, pull the bullet and weigh the powder, assuming it was a standard powder that Norma uses to load the factory rounds.

Thanks for all the replies,

Matt

 

[MudRunner2005]

Dosh -

This gun is the model with the 28" barrel, and it does have a very long throat. Using the Hornday OAL gauge it pushes the bullet all the way out of the case before it contacts the lands, so I am assuming it was chambered with a standard 257 wby reamer with the .378 free bore. The 28" barrel is sure nice for velocity. Staying within Nolser's max load of 74 grains, it was shooting the 110 very close to 3500 fps.

MudRunner -

I normally try to run my reloads very close to the lands for the exact reason you described. With the huge freebore of more than a 1/3, there is no getting close, and I'm not sure I want to. The Weatherby cartridges were designed with a lot of free bore to reduce over pressure that would otherwise be caused by the amount of powder in the larger case. In the 1960's that was the best solution to increase velocity without creating over pressure. I was thinking about shortening the COAL, only because most guys have very good luck with the factory loaded ammo and it is much shorter than SAMMI spec. Just thinking it may be some weird quirk with the Weatherbys.

I wish I knew what powder they were using. It would be easy to measure a factory load, pull the bullet and weigh the powder, assuming it was a standard powder that Norma uses to load the factory rounds.

Thanks for all the replies,

Matt

Like I said in the last post, I've heard numerous times over the years that it is Norma MRP powder...But if you can't find any of that, Alliant Reloder 22 is right next to it on the burn rate chart. After my testings with RL22, I would be willing to bet that MRP is much more temp stable. AND, whatever powder it is they use, the 110 Accubond factory loads have 69.5 grains of powder in them, I have pulled a few bullets before.

Norma MRP (1 Lb) by WESTERN & ACCURATE POWDER

 

[just country]

Morning, I noticed that the very first insert u said the factory ammo shot .500.

I would measure the factory ammo like Dr. Vette suggested. that would b my constant

in length. the powder is another question. MRP which is 4831. the burn rates r

matches. 4831sc, H1000 is what i use in my 257 Hot tamale. shots .250 with

nosler accu-bonds. check the seach mode for accuracy load. factory ammo is hard

to beat!! good luck. try the barnes TTSX, TSX in 100gr. I shoot this in my

250 savage. very good accuracy from this bullet.lightbulbgun)

 

[fmuguira]

I struggled getting accuracy from my 257 WB also. It's a Rem 700 stainless. Finally got the 110 AB and 115 BT to shoot well. Start low and work up but found 69.5 hrs of R22 with 215 primer did trick on 110 AB. Just overv3425 fps.... I ve seen a lot of folks say R22 is basically MRP ... Possibly.

With the 115 BT I'm loading 67 hrs of R22. Both loads sub MOA, AB typically a little tighter. I feel your pain as I chased OAL, short, long, etc myself. Believe it or not my load is very long, .200 or so into neck. If you want exact OAL let me know.... I can look it up.