TORN - Remington? Savage? Or?

[Sully2]

Kinda like this:

I bought my first Savage, when owning one wasn't cool. Dealer did his best to talk me out of it. It came in (112BVs), and they sent the wrong rifle! I ordered a single shot and they sent a repeater. Two guys were looking at Remingtons as we opened the box to have a look. I said it was the wrong gun, and they called Savage. Savage had a replcement on the UPS truck in 48 hours. While we were putting the wrong Savage back in the box one of the guys asked for a look see at the rifle and bought. I had mine in about a week. This dealer sold mostly Remingtons, Sakos, and a few Rugers. He promptly placed an order for a half dozen more Savages, and sold the next batch of them in less than a week. He now sells six to eight Savages for every Remington that goes out the door. But you can almost always find a used Remington on the used gun shelf, but rarely a Savage (if they take one in on a trade it rarely sets there 36 hours). That rifle was stolen from me, and by a strange fluke I ended up with the first Savage in a trade. I'd goto the range and shoot it surrounded by all those Remington guys, and always shot better than 85% of them did with a factory rifle. Dealer has a shooting contest, and I posted a target with six groups, five shots each. Biggest group was about 7/16" and the smallest was about .20". And I didn't win! I think I was number three, and the two ahead of me were dedicated bench guns using custom actions (I didn't learn what they used for a year or so). The next year I shot a Ruger in 6mm for the heck of it. Posted a similar target with six groups that were all roughly .40" or less. A guy in Savage won with a group in the high twos. Caught hell over shooting the Ruger instead of the Savage. The following year I bought a 700 Remington in .223 with a plan on shooting it in the contest. Yep! That ws an idea that soon made me fall on my face. After completely rebuilding the rifle from muzzel to butt pad I did get it to shoot rather consistent .45" groups, but another savage in .223 won it. I told all the guys that I was going to shoot a Savage in next year's contest, and posted a target in .300 Savage for the fun of it. It was a Savage 99, and I said I won just by having the rifle with the most class! Course I didn't finish in the top twenty, but I had the most fun (I think) and had the coolest rifle! Most of the guys in the first couple years posted one an two group targets, while I always posted six groups. Later they made a rule change to where you had to shoot four groups or more. I still always posted six groups. About that time I bought another single shot 22-250 in a Mod. 12. But they didn't do the contest anymore. It is a solid mid to high twos rifle. But never planned on shooting it in 22-250. One of these days it will be a 6BR switch barrel gun.
gary

Im glad I can sit here with my feet up! I havent seen it this deep in a long time!

 

[Greyfox]

Say all you want about me. I prefer Remington actions and you seem to prefer Savage....and that makes me a troll. NADA..it makes you a D*****S by your mere presenting only one side of the argument

I have no axe to grind. I never said I prefer Savage. Said I and several others I know didn't experience firing pin problems. Also said i owned and liked a Predator that shot well. I currently own Remington's, Savage, Winchesters, and numerous other brands for a whole lot longer period then two years. 20x that to be exact. That's plenty of time to understand that rifles have good points and bad. It's also plenty of time to learn how to spot someone with very shallow depth of knowledge and experience.

 

[green 788]

here's a nice long thread at BR Central when a stock Savage beat many custom rifles to win the Hickory Groundhog shoot a few years back...

Savage wins Hickory Groundhog shoot

 

[Sully2]

I have no axe to grind. I never said I prefer Savage. Said I and several others I know didn't experience firing pin problems. Also said i owned and liked a Predator that shot well. I currently own Remington's, Savage, Winchesters, and numerous other brands for a whole lot longer period then two years. 20x that to be exact. That's plenty of time to understand that rifles have good points and bad. It's also plenty of time to learn how to spot someone with very shallow depth of knowledge and experience.

I owned rifles years ago but gave them up because you cant use them in Ohio...and all my "buds" were getting married and raising familys and didnt have the $$ to hunt far from Ohio...so its not like my recent purchases abd custom builds are the first rifles Ive ever see. Had Winnie 22-250 and Rem 700 in 6mm back in 1970...to shoot ground hogs.

As far as bad points on the Savages...I dont have a clue...ONE because Im not even remotely interested in them...but I have seen with my own eyes the problem these 3 rifles HAD...not as in HAVE..but HAD.

I went to shotguns and bird hunting and shooting trap with my wife....Now you wish at ask me about "overboring"...or reaming forcing cones....or polishing barrels inside or different shot loads and combinations?? THATS what I studied for 20 odd years.

 

[Joe King]

Pure and total BS!
And for all the nay sayers...go and do a search on the firing pins sticking on Savage model and see what is in print. For Gods sake dont take my word at all.

Savage will be swallowed up someday just as Marlin was...because they are out of date in design and dont make products the majority of the public wants.

Ok I did the search and it did turn up a few hits.
Your turn now, I make it easy on ya just click the link Google

And with Rem's new issues about the finish their putting out, seems to have a decent gun you need to go through the whole gun and replace everything but the receiver and even then that has to be worked over. As for smiths that won't work on a savage that sounds like fear talking and not practical experience, my smith loves savages (hates the barrel nut but meh what ever).

For a rifle to be modular for the more mechanically inclined, well savages results speak for themselves, ugly as that damned things tend to be they shoot, and that's what their designed to do.

 

[Shooter5]

Hello Everyone! Just read through all the replies. Again, I want to say thank you to those of you that had something constructive to say. (You Know Who You Are - and Are Not.) Looks like I am going to try out a Savage. I bought a Remington .338 WM in bolt action last year and first time out, it would only cycle about 50% of the rounds. Both factory and handloads. I do have to say though that my customer service with Remington was very good. They covered the cost of all shipping and everything was covered under warranty. They had to pretty much replace all the components of the bolt. Recieved the rifle back in about 4 weeks. Looks like I might have to scratch Remington off the list for future weapons though. Enough headaches in life. I do not need to add to them!

Steve (Shooter5)

 

[green 788]

To be fair to Remington, pretty much any rifle can have it issues--Savage included.

We're just (mostly) saying that Savage is on average a much better shooting rifle out-of-the-box...

 

[Sully2]

Ok I did the search and it did turn up a few hits.
Your turn now, I make it easy on ya just click the link Google

And with Rem's new issues about the finish their putting out, seems to have a decent gun you need to go through the whole gun and replace everything but the receiver and even then that has to be worked over. As for smiths that won't work on a savage that sounds like fear talking and not practical experience, my smith loves savages (hates the barrel nut but meh what ever).

For a rifle to be modular for the more mechanically inclined, well savages results speak for themselves, ugly as that damned things tend to be they shoot, and that's what their designed to do.

And a few is all I ever alluded to Joe.

As far as Remingtons "finish"...and its a sacrilege to use that word...finish....Im the first to say its total S***! One of the main reasons I wont buy another lower level Remmie...the finish. I had a SPS for 1 whole day....and then ordered a new stock ( I bought laminated stock from Stockys) and was on the phone to my gunsmith about swapping barrels ( and calibers) That SPS was pure S***!

 

[Joe King]

And a few is all I ever alluded to Joe.

As far as Remingtons "finish"...and its a sacrilege to use that word...finish....Im the first to say its total S***! One of the main reasons I wont buy another lower level Remmie...the finish. I had a SPS for 1 whole day....and then ordered a new stock ( I bought laminated stock from Stockys) and was on the phone to my gunsmith about swapping barrels ( and calibers) That SPS was pure S***!

I read through those reported problems, that's not the firing pin at all, it's the accutrigger, sure it's nice for a little while but I've seen it before and the problem is that the metal in the trigger group (I believe the sear specifically) is not hard enough. One friend of mine bought a savage 22mag, he sent it in 3 times so far, it will start showing up in greater numbers as people begin to get a higher round count. For the price point I would still buy a Savage knowing that I'll need to upgrade the trigger when it gets annoying VS Remington's 700 trigger that flawed by design and can and has been a safety issue. That Remington tried to bury that issue, to me is...well Remington should be avoided until they make it right. But that's just how I feel about that sort of thing.

From what you reported about the finish you had 1st hand experience with. I can't believe that they sent those guns out not knowing about that. Makes me feel as a consumer that Remington really see's us as fodder, just leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

 

[RUMBALL]

Hi Guys,
Interesting little debate here I was wanting to purchase a savage 12 lpv 1.9 twist after talking to my gunsmith he sais go for it he loves them he himself is a benchshooter so they must be ok.
Now in saying this I use sako 22-250 shoots in the 2s lovely rifle.
I also shoot a tikka t3 laminate in 270 that also shoots in the 2s these to rifles are factory untouched.
I have rem sendeo 300 rum bedded,trigger and lugs lapped yet to get this rifle to shoot solid groups at this stage the metal work is not that tidy.
I also have 5r 308 milspec metal is a better standard of finish yet to shoot this rifle and I will say this both rifles have jammed up cycling ammo to be rectified by gunsmith.
I also have a savage thumbhole 17hmr shoots like a laser but the action feels like its full of beach sand but in saying that this rifle is at the low budget end of things.
I have fiddled with the upper market rifles from savage and they are much better.
So for me the sako and tikka are the smoothest actions I have cycled in factory form as far as remington they are not that smooth about as smooth as my sav 17hmr.
I personaly think for me I wont be buying anymore rems I shall keep the ones I have no doubt but from now on it will be savage or sako and tikka.
I think all rifle brands will have hiccups now and then but remington is lacking in quality control and is becoming a known I hope they lift their game as they are a bit of an icon and have a long history.

Cheers Rumball.

 

[toddc]

Since MOST $5k rifles shoot well lets say you have $1200 to spend on a long range hammer. Rem or sav? jajaja this should be good. And for the REMITES please consider that suicide isnt necessary just cuz ya get creamed at some silly internet challenge.

 

[Sully2]

From what you reported about the finish you had 1st hand experience with. I can't believe that they sent those guns out not knowing about that. Makes me feel as a consumer that Remington really see's us as fodder, just leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

On the finish Joe I think they were trying to get something into peoples hands for about the same price as say the Savage models. IMHO....too bad they didnt make it!!!

 

[Trickymissfit]

Well thats not really true either. My own smith charges "X" for the rifled blank...and "X" for chambering...of which you'll have to pay the same charges even for a barrel for a Savage.

As far as the bolt design being light years ahead of Remy...since Im not a rifle bolt designer, I cant say one way or the other. The Rem bolts do A-OK for me and thats all Im interested in.

the typical fee for headspacing and cutting the O.D. of a barrel blank for a Remington type action is about $150 from what I hear on this board. Some are higher I suppose, and there may even be a cheaper one too. The blank is gonna get you for about $300 more or less. I've bought several prefits thru the years, and the most I've ever paid for one was $349 delivered.

The Remington bolt is OK once it's setup right. Their extractor sucks on a good day, but can be fixed via a Sako or M16 extractor installation. Their ejector pin is similar in design to others and like the others simply needs a little polishing with a spring adjustment to fit your needs. What I find interesting here is that the only bolt(s) I've ever seen with coiled spring bind up are Remingtons, and even then that's not all that comon (I had one that did it). I think (my own opinion) their saftey is a joke at best. I have had serious trigger problems with them. Now I'm not all that much more enamored with the Savage saftey as well, and really only trust the Winchester saftey. So I simply open the bolt when not shooting.

Just my own opinion, but have long felt that the short action Remington is best suited for a 48 mm case length. Yet it works well with a 51mm case length as we already know. The Savage short actions are a touch longer than the Remingtons (maybe .150"). This really shows up if you happen to use an internal magazine. Both actions are round, and I prefer a flat bottomed action for bedding.

At least both actions are made in the USA
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

I have no axe to grind. I never said I prefer Savage. Said I and several others I know didn't experience firing pin problems. Also said i owned and liked a Predator that shot well. I currently own Remington's, Savage, Winchesters, and numerous other brands for a whole lot longer period then two years. 20x that to be exact. That's plenty of time to understand that rifles have good points and bad. It's also plenty of time to learn how to spot someone with very shallow depth of knowledge and experience.

Guess I'm the complete odd man out here. For a good solid hunting rifle that I know is going to work everytime; I prefer a MK V. Weatherby. But for busting coyotes at longer ranges I go with a Savage. For 300 yard and less shots, and mostly off hand shooting I like my 700VS in .223 (my version and not the one from New Yak). But it took a lot of time and energy to get there. My favorite rifles to shoot are almost always gonna be my 1885's and Savage 99's. (I want a Finnwolf really really bad). Every rifle has something that makes it pretty good; even though we may not like the whole package itself. I Happen to like the feel of the old Ruger 77's (the was the stock was cut) and the shape and feel of the bolt handle. The Winchester Mod. 70 would be next with the thumb safter a just a good feel with the stock in battery. But to pick up a rifle and just shoot it knowing it's gonna be there the MK V. is it for me.
gary