Tomahawk (300 RUM imp.) vs WarBird???

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by NorthernSniper, Feb 8, 2004.

  1. NorthernSniper

    NorthernSniper Well-Known Member

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    I noticed the wildcat Tomahawk is fairly popular, how does this stack up against the Lazzeroni WarBird? It sounds to me like except for maybe slight differences in case dimensions these 2 calibers would be awfully close to the same performance?
     
  2. CanadianLefty

    CanadianLefty Well-Known Member

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    Good question. I am also interested in the answer.

    Question #2: How do either compare to a .30-338 Lapua Improved 40 degrees??

    I read somewhere that this cartridge will outperform the warbird and tomahawk and will also have aditional case life due to the Lapua brass...anyone have facts on this??

    thanks
     
  3. Jake in NC

    Jake in NC Well-Known Member

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    .. For the price difference in dies I'd go with a straight .300 RUM.. Ask Len.. He has the two cases.. The gain on the Tommy is minimal IMO..
    .. But if ya just gotta keep in mind I have a set of dies you can get at a heckova deal..
    .. I can't say about the Lazzeroni.. Proprietary cartridges have always seemed like something to avoid, to me.. Good luck with whatever ya choose..!! d:^) JiNC
     
  4. Brian Rybicky

    Brian Rybicky Well-Known Member

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    Its too bad the ultra-longrange got deleted....anyways the 30-338 has a slightly larger case capacity, better brass, and higher velocity, The Tomahawk has slightly less velocity than the 30/338 brass isn't has good, but the benifit is that it can be built on a standard magnum action with out having to open the bolt face, making a much stronger action.

    Brian
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I have seen three guns chambered for the 308 Warbird and none of them would shoot anywhere near the listed velocity , not even with a 28" barrel , factory ammo or reloads.

    What velocity has anybody "actualy" gotten with the 300RUM , 30-338 Lapua Imp , or Tomahawk.
     
  6. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    I think the Ultra Imp and the Laz offer minimal gain. If you're going to do it, might as well end up with top notch brass and go Lapua.

    I do get a decent gain over the Ultra, and seemingly with less powder in my 30/338 Lapua Imp.

    I think the largest gain was with the 178gr AMax, 3500 fps in the 30.5" bbl. I took it to 3650 but it was pretty damn hot!

    About 3200-3250 with the 210gr bullets using RL25 and Retumbo. Those loads are a little hot, up around 70,000 psi, so you'd get about 50-75 fps less if you dropped to around 65k psi. Still, slightly better than the Ultra, but it does have a 30.5" barrel over my 26" factory tubed Ultra though...

    Like Jake said, I'd go with the Ultra if you weren't going to do the Lapua, it's no slouch!
     
  7. reed mosser

    reed mosser Well-Known Member

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    I have savage action 30 ich barrel 30-338 laupa improved with 35 degree sholder. It is the flatest shooting and best killing gun I have ever had out to a 1000 yds. i shoot 100 grains of 7828 IMR and 150 hornady interbond at 3850FPS. It will fireform at around 3700 with 98.0 gr of 7828. I think the cartidge is very accurate and the gun will shoot from .2's at a hundred to 0.75 of a inch depending on me. If you want any other info just ask. Thanks Reed
     
  8. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    Here's a picture of the 30/338 Lapua 40 deg Imp, next to it are a couple shortened Rigby 30 cals.

    [​IMG]
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    Some groups I shot. 210 Berger @ 3150 90gr RL25.
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    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
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    Here's a ladder test I did at 300 yards right after the gun was built, well, it still isn't finished but it shoots OK.
    The last 4 rounds grouped up high, fairly tight. The circle there is 2". 90-97gr Retumbo, 210 JLK.

    [​IMG]
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    Couple shots at 400 yards to check drop on a new load.
    *
    [​IMG]

    [ 03-23-2004: Message edited by: Brent Moffitt ]
     
  9. demarpaint

    demarpaint Well-Known Member

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    Hi Reed,

    Who Chambered the Savage?

    Frank D
     
  10. Nick B

    Nick B Member

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    Do not chamber your rifle for the warbird. I made that mistake and found that the Lazzeroni brass had wall thickness variation right next to the head of 13 thousandths which caused the head to seperate at the web on the thin side of the case after a couple reloadings. Velocities were also below advertised speeds. I agree with Brent, 30-338 Lapua Imp. is the way to go. Wish I had done that in the first place.
     
  11. NorthernSniper

    NorthernSniper Well-Known Member

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    Have not heard much about the 30-338 is this a necked down 338 RUM? I dont really see any point in going to the 300 Tomahawk just to gain 4gr of powder over the 300RUM.
     
  12. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    NS,

    S1, STL, Wayne, Len, Nick and I all have versions of the 30/338 Lapua Imp. The parent case is the 338 Lapua. If you are not familiar with the case, it's a slightly shortened 416 Rigby case, but totally redesigned and strengthened considerably by Lapua, originally to operate at 70,000 psi in the military sniper rifles. The case is increadibly thick in the web and wall areas to handle higher pressure that the Rigby case would not tolerate, it's also very hard brass to top it off.

    Case capacity on the 30 Wolf version is 120gr, which has a 35 degree shoulder and a neck length of (STL where are you?) and a shoulder diameter of (STL will fill us in). STL gets 3300 fps with a 210 JLK with Retumbo in a 32", 3 groove, 11 twist barrel.

    Wayne and Len have Wayne's design called the 300 WAMBOMAG, holds about 117gr water. It has a 35 degree shoulder, .375" neck length and .567" diameter at the shoulder. Wayne shoots the 240gr SMK at (Wayne buddy?) I think near 3100 fps with WC872 and was working up from 102gr to 106 or so to see if he could hit 3200. I think he put 5 in an 1-1/2" at 300 with the 102gr load last we talked about it. I think he settled on nearly 80gr of H1000 also.

    Nick has the same design that I have, holds about 117gr water. It has a 40 degree shoulder, .405" neck length, .570" at the shoulder. I've been shooting 210 JLK's and Berger's, along with some 200gr Accubonds. I get about 3200 fps on average, depending on the powder. I've used RL22, RL25, Retumbo and H50BMG, that's in a 30.5", 3 groove, 11 twist Lilja bbl. Nick, he'll have to fill you in on the details with his rig, last I heard he was testing some 210 Berger's in his. (Nick??)

    Hope that helps.

    [ 03-24-2004: Message edited by: Brent Moffitt ]
     
  13. CanadianLefty

    CanadianLefty Well-Known Member

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    Interesting...

    Now you have me thinking about a cool rifle series:

    1. .257-338 Lapua mag, improved 40*
    2. 7mm-338 Lapua mag, improved 40*
    3. 30-338 Lapua mag, improved 40*
    4. 375-338 Lapua mag, improved 35*

    [ 03-25-2004: Message edited by: CanadianLefty ]
     
  14. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    Why not? [​IMG]

    257 - Wow!!

    I'd like to have a 416 version.