'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..

Jake in NC

Well-Known Member
Oct 25, 2002
\'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..

.. Man, this is a pain in the arse but here goes..
.. In recent history I purchased a "custom" Winchester rifle from a moderator on this board.. Things I've expereinced with this rifle have gone beyond "mistakes" or "oversights" and are approaching pure negligence.. I have been put at serious risk of injury over it.. Please click the link below for the story from my perspective..

.. This is not a personal attack against anyone.. I just wanna know what the heck is the real deal, if that's possible anymore.. I'm somewhat sure it's gonna boil down to a "buyer beware" thing.. And you can bet yer butt MY attitude has changed over it..!! If nothing else this kindof thing makes us all look pretty bad..

..If you would like to respond personally please email me..
[email protected]

...Winchester Story...
Re: \'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..

**** Jake, Me thinks you didn't get a square deal for sure, I for one will never buy a gun without seeing it first and doing a thorough inspection first, there's just too many things wrong with this rifle to make it right, trigger, muzzle brake that doesn't allow a bullet to get through cleanly due to a burr. When I sell my guns I make sure they are in perfect working order, if not, the buyer comes looking for me and I got some splaining to do, I'm sure this taught you a good lesson Jake, and you'll be extra cautious next time, if there is one. BUYER BEWARE! Jay
Re: \'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..

I really hate that you feel like you got a raw deal. I told you when you bought the rifle I had only owned it for less than a month and and had fired less than 30 rounds thru it, the first ten being "break-in" rounds for the new throat and chamber.
Nothing about my reply to you was "Clintonesque" as I told you straight out that I didn't adjust the trigger and didn't have any problems with it. I thought it was a little heavy for a "competition rifle". But I didn't mess with it. If you are calling me a liar, just come out and say it. I've dealt with several people on this board and I'm sure they will vouch for my integrity.
As far as the brake goes, I'm wondering what you did to it. The gun shot around one half MOA in the few groups I shot with it.
You got the rifle just as it was when I got it. I didn't bed the rifle, didn't adjust the trigger, or anything else for that matter. I was straight with you when you asked questions then, as I am now. But I don't appreciate you calling my integrity into question.
As far as I am concerned, this matter is closed. If you want to continue this tirade, do it on someone else's time. I am going to ask Len to delete this entire thread as it does not fit within the original rules set forth for ALL board members.
Re: \'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..

Re: \'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..

I don't beleive deleting the post so soon would...solve the issue at hand. Also, it makes certain individuals look....bad, if the topic is just shut down. Truth typically comes out in due time, whatever it may be, but if a person feels they have something to say regarding a item/s they purchased, they should--within reason--be aloud to express such <those who have purchased things that were not up to par will find the wisdom in such an outlook, as will those who have purchased things they have been pleased with.> Things are still to murky to make an accurate assessment as of yet, but I think those on this board, including Chris himself, should be allowed to follow this little venture, and see where it leads us.
Re: \'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..


I really feel bad for you. My recent custom rifle purchase has been quite satisfactory - it helped me immensely to watch the thing go together, and although I'm no machinist, I saw the attention to detail that went into it. I can only imagine how bad you feel...

Although I'm no bedding expert either, it doesn't take one to tell that the bedding job on that rifle looks more like the expanding foam I use to seal the drafty spaces under my garage wall than a high quality bench rest bedding job.

And that brake thing - WOW!

Well, the good news is that it's just a bunch of steel and fiberglass and a good gunsmith could fix it up in a hurry. Email me if you need a recommendation...
Re: \'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..

Hey Chris.. I'm not calling anyone anything.. I just stated the facts as I see them in the most factual way I know how.. I didn't question anyone's integrity.. I just want to know what the real deal is with this setup.. I honestly believe that you did just pass it on.. And maybe it did get some good groups when you had it.. Heck, I even gto a couple of decent groups from it.. But I don't see how with this brake like this.. I know I have a pretty good grip but probably not enough to mangle the ID of a muzzle brake that's removed and replaced hand tight everytime the rifle is cleaned.. I know a little about metal and what I removed from the clearance hole in the brake was a burr from machining the ports..
.. For the record.. Here's a cut&paste of the two emails I got when I asked about the trigger..

CJ= "I'll have to defer to DC to answer this one--I didn't touch the trigger adjustments, but I didn't have any trouble with it, either... The Jewell is the way to go for a light adjustment on a Winny, anyway... Good Luck--CJ.."

DC="Jake I never had a problem with the trigger on that rifle. My wife shot the gun in the 1000 yard matches and if it would have had a problem, I would have changed it. I think Chris had done some honing work on it after I sent it to him but, I'm not sure. I know he said he did something to it. Ask him.Again, there was NEVER a problem with it when I had it. Later DC"
.. Nothing incriminating but by anyone but somethin' is awry..
.. It didn't do it all the time so maybe it didn't when you used it.. That's a definite possibility.. All I want is the truth..

Heck, I really actually like the rifle.. Outside of the descrepancies the fit and finish are nice.. (I still don't know 'bout that bedding, tho'.. But that, as I said before, could be my own ignorance..) The chamber looked nice in the borescope.. Somewhere down the line tho', something has been done with unsafe results.. Hopefully these problems can be corrected by a competant gunsmith.. But it would help greatly if I knew what else may need to be done..
..Sorry you took such offense at my questioning the past of this rifle.. No offense was meant.. If anyone should be offended it would be the individual(s) who could well have had a permanent case of Winchester LA bolt thru the head.. (If I'm not mistaken, there are at least two of us on this list, maybe three or four.!!)
..As far as I can tell, this board doesn't really get a lot of "irregular" traffic.. Let's just settle this "amongst us chickens".. d:^) JiNC
Re: \'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..

Jake to clear this matter up a bit, I refered to Chris as "possibly" honing the trigger on that rifle. I was completely wrong in that statement.
He (Chris) had another rifle for sale that we were talking about trading on the 300 RUM.

He said he had honed the trigger on "that" rifle which was a Remington Sendaro 270. Correct me if I'm wrong Chris.

I mixed up the two rifles in our conversation.

Again I'll say, I never had any trouble with the trigger on the rifle in question and neither did my wife when she shot it as a 300 Weatherby Mag.

As Chris mentioned, it shot 1/2 MOA the few groups he fired from it and I remember the email and post he sent about it. There had not been many rounds fired through that rifle. The reason I sold it was, I picked up a 30 Goodling with a sleeved Remington action that she (my wife) liked better.

Chris or I, either one, would NEVER sell a defective rifle to anyone and that, you can take to the bank.
If I would have had trigger problems, I would have mentioned it in an ad or changed it myself.


[ 06-26-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
Re: \'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..

Your point is understood.
I will stand by what I said in the last post and in the email, however, and I don't know where Darryl got the info that I "honed" the trigger.(edited in--now I know--we were talking about a different rifle) I will be the first to admit that I don't do Winchester work. I have had a grand total of "ONE" Winchester M70, and you now own it. I liked the rifle, but with a baby on the way, the funds were needed elsewhere. I have since decided that I will stick with one brand from here on out--my beloved Remingtons.
If I had known anything about the brake, ordeal, I would have definitely fixed that. Obviously I wouldn't fire the thing if I thought it was unsafe.
All I can say is there were no bad intentions when I sold it, and I hope it works out for you.

[ 06-26-2003: Message edited by: Chris Jamison ]
Re: \'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..


I am not taking sides on anything here, but I will provide a little info that might be relavent on the trigger. I have personally seen that happen on one of my guns before and traced it back to dirt stopping the sear from releasing the firing pin and when open the bolt, pressure is off and it releases. Our club also, about 5 yrs ago had a competitor do the same and on opening of the bolt it fired in an unlocked position and put the bolt thru his shoulder. Bottom line might not have been nothing wrong with the trigger when it was sold.

Second most important point if anyone using a match gun with a lightened trigger has an occurence of the gun not firing on pulling the trigger you had better look at the back of the bolt on Rem in particular and see if the back of firing pin shroud has moved minutely. If it has, then tie a rope to the bolt handle and pull it open from the side and make sure no one is behind the gun. If you ASSume that it is OK to open the bolt you might get a rude awakening and not get off lucky with just being scared.

Re: \'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..

[ 07-12-2003: Message edited by: S1 ]
Re: \'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..

Did you have problems with the trigger when you put in the new one, I ask for a reason a friend of mine had a Win. 270 well his son did and we were on a moose hunt and while walking to a stand the rifle went off while on the kids schoulder well his Dad tore the heck out of that boy thinking he left the saftey off and then took the rifle and we started off again we did not go 200 yards and off it went again and YES!!!! the saftey was on bouth times needles to say it stayed in camp the rest of that trip boy that guy tried to make up to that boy the whole trip.

I do not see anything funny on what is going on with your rifle BUT!!!!!! I do know DC and I have never ever gotten a bad deal from him ever and I live 5000 miles away from him not saying the rest are wrong or right I do not know them but the one I do know is a Honest Man just my 2 Cents I hope you get the rifle problems worked out with out any harm to your self or anybody else.

Also the statement about getting banned and trouble with cops I think is out of line again my own thoughts right or wrong >>><<< Coyote Slayer
Re: \'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..

Obviously you have opened you mouth again and showed your arse without knowing the whole story. Jake had the standard three day inspection period just like anyone else that is standard practice in purchasing a firearm over the internet.
The only thing I heard from him during that three days was that the rifle had arrived and he was pleased.
None of the other problems were mentioned except the question on the trigger adjustment until this post, two months after the purchase. To me, that "speaks volumes" about a crybaby who justs wants something to complain about.
You may have "technical competence", as I do, but but your demeanor and personality leave much to be desired.
Re: \'Tis a crock of excrement and it stinketh..


That rifle shot some decent groups in 1000 yard compititions when it was a 300 Weatherby.

When I put it up for sale in the beginning, Chris (the new owner) wanted it to be a 300 RUM Improved Tomahawk. I took it to the gunsmith to have that done. The day he finished rechambering it and he fired the test rounds, I sent it off to Chris who wrote back that he shot groups that were 1/2MOA and he thought he could even do better with it?

I have "no" idea what happen after that to the rifle. The rifle was only rechambered and nothing done to the brake at all.
If there was a burr, it would have had to be there while Chris shot his 1/2MOA groups he shot and stated on the forum. The burr would have also been there while my wife was shooting in the matches.
I don't think a burr was there , not while I had the rifle.

Possibly someone tightened the brake up to tight with a steel rod instead of a brass one? I don't know but, I do know the rifle was fine when it left for it's first new owner. After that I have no clue.

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