throw a bullet ?

[Tulsa Reiner]

When you swing your rifle it most definitely imparts horizontal motion to the bullet. It does so at the angular rate that you are swinging the gun. It doesn't curve a bullet. It's an actual horizontal vector. You can prove this to yourself by swinging across a stationary target and pulling the trigger when you pass by it. You'll miss it unless you stop to pull the trigger.

I would agree there is horizontal motion of the bullet while it is in the chamber, but not after it leaves the muzzle.
The necessity of the "swing" when bird hunting or shooting at a running animal is to keep the muzzle (sights) pointing at the target when the trigger is pulled. The follow through is just a technique to be sure you don't stop the swing before the powder ignites.

 

[jlvandersnick]

with a shotgun and a fast swing...would one get a a bit more of a horizontal shot string? I think I read this some place

 

[Chase723]

I would agree there is horizontal motion of the bullet while it is in the chamber, but not after it leaves the muzzle.
The necessity of the "swing" when bird hunting or shooting at a running animal is to keep the muzzle (sights) pointing at the target when the trigger is pulled. The follow through is just a technique to be sure you don't stop the swing before the powder ignites.

Wrong. There is horizontal motion after it leaves the barrel. There has to be (law of conservation of energy) and it is equivalent to the angular velocity it's moving at at the time it leaves the muzzle. It's the exact same as throwing a ball out of a moving vehicle. It doesn't just go straight out from the vehicle once it leaves your hand. It still also maintains its motion in the direction of travel of the vehicle.

 

[Chase723]

...I just watched the mythbusters episode...that's interesting. We need a physicist to weigh in on this.

 

[browndcm]

Wrong. There is horizontal motion after it leaves the barrel. There has to be (law of conservation of energy) and it is equivalent to the angular velocity it's moving at at the time it leaves the muzzle. It's the exact same as throwing a ball out of a moving vehicle. It doesn't just go straight out from the vehicle once it leaves your hand. It still also maintains its motion in the direction of travel of the vehicle.

Kinetic energy Mxvxv divide by 2g
Sorry I would disagree with you
Maybe I am wrong, the ball goes out the window straight and is caught in the reverse air speed due to the forward motion of the car and goes backward

 

[lancetkenyon]

So if i'm shooting my rifle off the bench on a lead sled and the barrel (theoretically) is not moving at all, much less swinging at a moving target such as a coyote, leaving out all other factors like brass, bullet, load, barrel, optics and more, how am i not punching one hole in every target with 10 shots every time? Doesn't seem to make sense . . . yet.

POA differences, Velocity differences, barrel harmonics, cheek weld, trigger pressure, sympathetic movement, recoil management, bullet inconsistencies, neck tension inconsistencies, barrel temps, brass differences, primer variations, ES/SD differences, powder fill variations, wind, parallax, mirage, etc.

 

[Chase723]

Kinetic energy Mxvxv divide by 2g
Sorry I would disagree with you
Maybe I am wrong, the ball goes out the window straight and is caught in the reverse air speed due to the forward motion of the car and goes backward

kinetic energy = 1/2mv^2. There's no element of gravity involved in the calculation of kinetic energy. The ball goes out the window and actually travels on a diagonal path. Even more simplistically, if you drive down the road and simply drop a ball out the window and then slam on the brakes the ball still rolls forward down the road because it has momentum (MV)... It certainly doesn't go backwards.

 

[browndcm]

kinetic energy = 1/2mv^2. There's no element of gravity involved in the calculation of kinetic energy. The ball goes out the window and actually travels on a diagonal path. Even more simplistically, if you drive down the road and simply drop a ball out the window and then slam on the brakes the ball still rolls forward down the road because it has momentum (MV)... It certainly doesn't go backwards.

Sorry I was thinking of something else
I am old lol

 

[yorke-1]

I think this video will help explain the "thrown bullet" concept.

 

[Tulsa Reiner]

Wacky!!
Those guys are entertaining and informative. (Everybody should watch.)
Take aways:
1. Don't let arrogance get in the way of understanding,
2. A "thrown bullet" travels in a straight line, like the thrown droplets of water.
Thanks to Yorke-1.

 

[Capt RB]

With a shotgun, you will get a horizontal pattern with a swinging gun. I've broken clay targets more than 8' apart closer to 12' with a single shot. Same with passing Mallards something I use to do alot of. Bullets will arc but you're not bending them around an object to hit a target without a serious wind like 100mph from a chopper or C130. As far as hitting running targets with a rifle swing like a shotgun. Your mental makeup will determine how well you do that. Your brain will do all the work and to prove it to yourself get a 22. and start with hand tossed clay pigeons.
When you get your first hard focus with your eyes your pointing at the target and the rifle should have gone off. I've shot clays out of a trius trap mounted on a tire thrown 30-50 degrees to my front with a 30/06. I've not done 90 degrees but it would work the same it's a safety issue without a remote controlled trap.
Moving a gun rapidly by a stationary target is just a timing issue. Some people have it some don't.

 

[Tulsa Reiner]

With a shotgun, you will get a horizontal pattern with a swinging gun. I've broken clay targets more than 8' apart closer to 12' with a single shot.
A horizontal pattern can be obtained from a shotgun because not all the pellets leave the barrel at the same instant.
The pellets are stacked in the shell, and ones to the base of the shell leave later, yielding a horizontal pattern from a moving barrel.

 

[rammac]

https://www.aircav.com/cobra/ballistic.html

Projectile Drift.

(1) When viewed from the rear, most projectiles spin in a clockwise direction. Spinning projectiles act like a gyroscope and exhibit gyroscopic precession. This effect causes the projectile to move to the right, which is called the horizontal plane gyroscopic effect. As the range to target increases, projectile drift increases.

Spin-Stabilized Projectiles. Certain exterior ballistic characteristics are peculiar to spin-stabilized projectiles fired from weapons with rifled barrels. These weapons include the .50-caliber and 7.62-mm machine guns, and the 20- and 30-mm cannons. When fired in the fixed mode (straight ahead of the helicopter), the projectiles generally have the same ballistic characteristics as ground-fired weapons. However, relative wind changes and the velocity of the helicopter increase or decrease the velocity of the projectile. Ballistic characteristics influencing spin-stabilized projectiles fired from positions other than a stabilized hover are discussed below.

(1) Trajectory shift. When the boreline axis of the weapon differs from the flight path of the helicopter, the movement of the helicopter changes the trajectory of the projectile. For off-axis shots within ±90 degrees of the helicopter's heading, trajectory shift causes the round to hit left or right of the target. To correct for trajectory shift, the gunner leads the target. To lead the target, the gunner places fire on the near side of the target as the helicopter approaches. The amount of lead depends on the airspeed of the helicopter, angle of deflection, velocity of the projectile, and range of the target. Figure 3 shows trajectory shift. Table 2 shows some examples of how to compensate for trajectory shift.

Port-starboard effect. Trajectory shift and projectile drift combine to constitute the port-starboard effect. When targets are on the left, the effects of drift and shift compound each other; both cause the round to move right. To hit the target, the gunner must correct for both ballistic effects by firing to the left of the target. When targets are on the right, the effect of projectile drift (round moves right) tends to cancel the effect of trajectory shift (round moves left). Therefore, firing requires less compensation. The range and airspeed at which a target is engaged determine which effect is greater. For example, at ranges less than 1,000 meters, trajectory shift is greater. The gunner must fire to the right of the target. At ranges beyond 1,000 meters, the effect of projectile drift is greater and tends to cancel the effect of trajectory shift.

Theoretically the math works out to something like 1" to 1 1/2" shift at 100 yards with the speed that most people could move their hands and body at. So you might be able to create a 1 MOA shift of the bullet's impact if you swing your weapon really fast.

 

[yorke-1]

Wacky!!
Those guys are entertaining and informative. (Everybody should watch.)
Take aways:
1. Don't let arrogance get in the way of understanding,
2. A "thrown bullet" travels in a straight line, like the thrown droplets of water.
Thanks to Yorke-1.

Both of the guys in that video have exceptional Youtube channels. The Smarter Every Day channel actually has a lot gun/shooting related content.