Threat to Missouri Breaks sheep

[mtmuley]

https://billingsgazette.com/outdoor...cial&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=user-share I post a lot of info I come across on the wolf forum. I feel this needs to be out there for sheep hunters. Thoughts? mtmuley

 

[reelhardmt]

I personally don't believe that domestic sheep are all the reason for the Bighorn's problem.
We have not been able to properly manage the predators on the CMR. Coyotes, Mountain Lions and Golden Eagles. The Eagles are very hard on the spring Bighorn Lambs.

 

[Don A Parsons]

Yes,,, we have the same problem pinning down what causes the loss in habitat here in Northern / Western Canada...

Some say it's humans,,, Wolves,,, domestic Dogs,,, Cougars,,, packs of Coyote,,, Eagle,,, Owls,,, Hawks,,, Falcons,,, Grizzly Bears,,, ATV's,,, Snowmobiles,,, Air Planes,,, Helicopters,,, Rock Slides,,, Winter time Avalanches,,, Earth Quakes,,, Inland land River flooding,,, swamps and marshes,,, powerful wind storms that topple Hector of forests in one sweep...

Oh,,, and forest fires and the smoke that's produced since it affects the calving season,,, let's not forget about ticks and bugs along with parasites and sub articles cold temps that last for months a-possed to weeks...

Cars,,, trucks,,, and trains... Pretty sure there are at least another 1000 if not 10.000 other factors that we don't know about...

I like what the old guy said,,, there's no one root cause that affects the situation,,, its all of them over a long period of time at unknown intervals that """Might""" play theatre into the loss of habitat...

Its easier to blame one or more things even though we don't understand what the root cause was for each fatality... Just because this is the case for this dosen't mean it's the same for the next since reputation is ever changing.

Cheers from the North

 

[26Reload]

In Oregon's Hart Mountain Antelope Refuge, the desert bighorn were being hit worst by..........cougars..........
Cougar population moved in from nearby Warner Mtns because.........the deer were dead........
Imagine that....a predator changed locations and food sources because it had eradicated its own food source on another mountain.......
And the pronghorn of the refuge......numbers greatly reduced because of............coyotes........killing the fawns or kids whichever you prefer..........so much reduction in numbers that the game dept had to.......kill off the coyote........
Amazing......but true......

 

[Axl]

I personally don't believe that domestic sheep are all the reason for the Bighorn's problem.
We have not been able to properly manage the predators on the CMR. Coyotes, Mountain Lions and Golden Eagles. The Eagles are very hard on the spring Bighorn Lambs.

Maybe,but this is one of the largest Bighorn herds in the country WITH all those predators present. The pneumonia-causing bacterium Mycoplasma ovipneumoniae will kill most of the sheep in a herd.
In the Elkhorn mountains a few years ago a squatter on Forrest service land had some domestic sheep/goats that came in contact with the wild Bighorns there, and ALL those sheep are dead.

 

[reelhardmt]

Maybe,but this is one of the largest Bighorn herds in the country WITH all those predators present. The pneumonia-causing bacterium Mycoplasma ovipneumoniae will kill most of the sheep in a herd.
In the Elkhorn mountains a few years ago a squatter on Forrest service land had some domestic sheep/goats that came in contact with the wild Bighorns there, and ALL those sheep are dead.

Im not familiar with the Elkhorns but are these Bighorns transplanted? I do know the Feds come and net the Bighorn sheep in march and transplant them all over the state. I have a problem with the anti agriculture propaganda.

 

[Dosh]

In Oregon's Hart Mountain Antelope Refuge, the desert bighorn were being hit worst by..........cougars..........
Cougar population moved in from nearby Warner Mtns because.........the deer were dead........
Imagine that....a predator changed locations and food sources because it had eradicated its own food source on another mountain.......
And the pronghorn of the refuge......numbers greatly reduced because of............coyotes........killing the fawns or kids whichever you prefer..........so much reduction in numbers that the game dept had to.......kill off the coyote........
Amazing......but true......

Good example here in Az coyotes were grabbing antelope lambs right out of the afterbirth. Groups reached out to the varmint hunter clubs to reduce these predators and the tags in one unit cleared of coyotes went from 2 to the 20's in just seven years. Had a southwest Az Bighorn unit decimated by lions till game and fish hired hunters to kill off the lions. This is a process which takes a good deal of time and resources.

 

[Plinker147]

NM flat out proved lions were the limiting factors in our Desert sheep. They started lion control, sheep #'s went up. Now we have more desert tags than Rockies. Lion don't seem to bother our northern rock herds much.

Domestic sheep and goat are a real threat, they can wipe out an entire wild sheep herd by being carriers of diseases. Wild sheep are born looking for a place to die, they aren't very hardy and need lots of baby sitting to keep them a float.

 

[mtmuley]

Im not familiar with the Elkhorns but are these Bighorns transplanted? I do know the Feds come and net the Bighorn sheep in march and transplant them all over the state. I have a problem with the anti agriculture propaganda.

I don't think it's " propaganda". And why even endanger possibly the best bighorn sheep herd in the lower 48? These sheep are one of the only things MTFWP hasn't screwed up yet. I get the property rights angle. I get the agriculture angle. This guy has a different agenda. mtmuley

 

[Axl]

Im not familiar with the Elkhorns but are these Bighorns transplanted? I do know the Feds come and net the Bighorn sheep in march and transplant them all over the state. I have a problem with the anti agriculture propaganda.

Don't know if they WERE transplants- they are dead now.
They were on public land.
The Feds do NOT transplant sheep in MT. the MT FWP does.
As far as agriculture goes, the Elkhorns die off was the result of a guy living in an old school bus with a bunch of livestock on US Forrest service land for 6 months. which is illegal- you can camp for no more than 16 days.
Also the FWP will not transplant sheep into an area unless existing domestic sheep/goats are at least 15 miles away.

 

[bigngreen]

It's utter BS, the highest sheep numbers in the Tendoys co-insided with over 10,000 head of sheep grazing the same area they lived in, same water, same everything and the Bighorns were strong in numbers and spread out in the 80's. They have done several transplants and I know on group was dead within a month due to wolves, they came of wild horse and didn't have a qlue, the last I counted before they got gunned there were about 25 in the whole area, several were blind and about dead, I've found a lot of dead sheep in that area.
There hasn't been domestic sheep in the Tendoys in 10 years, hasn't been more than 1200 in 25 years plus and the Bighorns got so bad they decided to wipe them out, all were shot on permit or a plane and now they are going to try to reintroduce them from sheep from the Breaks since they have a little more idea of predators.
MTFWP has pooch screwed the Bighorn sheep!!!

 

[mtmuley]

Thanks there bigngreen. Except I am talking Breaks sheep. We can start another thread about the Tendoy herd. mtmuley

 

[bigngreen]

The knowledge and what they think is going on is based on the herds in the Tendoys and others, if that is flawed and they don't really have a qlue which there are several biologist who have that sentiment then the Breaks herd could be hammered and they will still be blaming domestic sheep. There are biologist who have some other ideas about what's going on which seem to have merit, that's why the Tendoys is so important in regards to the Breaks sheep since now that they have wiped the Tendoys clean they will transplant a large amount of Breaks sheep in but use a different management strategy which if it works will be implemented in the Breaks to keep them healthy instead of chasing a red herring.

 

[NEMTHunter]

We hunt the breaks. Have for the last ten years. Just drew a Bull tag for 631. So Should be getting back out there this year. I have a friend that hunts in the 622 district right to the west of 631 Timber creek bay splits the two districts. We always see Big Horns when we are in there. The interesting thing is we have noticed there is not as many as there used to be. And for sure not near as many Big Rams. In fact this last year we did not see one Ram that was legal to be shot. I do not think there are any domestic sheep out there. Just a observation I have made. Along with others I know that hunt that area. I will say this. They have been giving out IMHO to many tags. I have yet to draw a Big Horn tag. Thinking about no trying since its so hard to get. LOL Whats they fun in that right?


Not to mention the elk numbers seem to be going down.. Thats another story...

Both cases I feel is poor management. To many tags given out. But then again that does not mean they get filled.